Hudson Crash FO's Letter to USA Today
#31
The guy who said this:
"My FAA-issued pilot's license does not say "regional flying only." It has my name with a picture of Wilbur and Orville Wright on the back. My point is that you can trust the U.S. airline system. Don't think lowest bidder. Think leanest operator with the sharpest management team.
So go online, search for that lowest fare and keep flying. It's a wonderful and safe world out there."
definitely loses me in his last few sentences. Don't get me wrong...Im not going to drive my aircraft into the ground just because Im paid poorly. But give me a break with the "leanest operator with sharpest management" BS.
"My FAA-issued pilot's license does not say "regional flying only." It has my name with a picture of Wilbur and Orville Wright on the back. My point is that you can trust the U.S. airline system. Don't think lowest bidder. Think leanest operator with the sharpest management team.
So go online, search for that lowest fare and keep flying. It's a wonderful and safe world out there."
definitely loses me in his last few sentences. Don't get me wrong...Im not going to drive my aircraft into the ground just because Im paid poorly. But give me a break with the "leanest operator with sharpest management" BS.
He hasn't met our CEO with the public speaking abilities of a retarded rock. He hasn't met one of our VP's that has continuously shot down the half time line proposal for crews to save the company money because "then benefits should be cut in half as well so we will just pay 100 extra people FULL PAY AND BENEFITS instead of half pay and full benefits to the tune of half a mil savings to the company" With that fiscal sense he should be a senior US senator.....
#32
Don't want to be a CFI, have no talent for teaching, have bad eyes so the military doesn't want you? Fine. Go fly piston freight with your commercial license. Just don't expect you should be able to perform as a airline pilot without being licensed as such.
#33
Aren't you a furloughed RJ FO? If so, what's your incentive to accept recall? Even if you're not, what was your incentive to show up for class @ your regional? It's likely similar to the incentive future RJ FO's have today.
#34
I have argued for that from day one here... I tried to get them to type me as a new hire ( I already had the ATP AND a jet type ) and was told not possible. (this in the Avro sim where you could taxi in the right seat including tiller) I tried to get them to type me on the Saab(and test to keep the circ vmc only off) and was told no on both dispite the obvious impending upgrade for all of us in that and several after classes. I can only imagine how much money was wasted bringing people back into a full 2.5 month class for upgrade within 6 months of initial. Granted I ended up skipping Saab captain but at the bottom of the jet list, with any displacements then instead of 2 sims and a PC it's 2.5 months at 900 pay and a full course cost...... You'd think this would be a great money saving opportunity since how much more would it cost to give the PIC checkride initially? From what I know only Skyway gave the option and Compass just outright does type all FO's.... I know of no other regional (and for that matter majors on the domestic equipment) that will even if requested.
There was actually a manager here that agreed with my thinking but thanks to the bankruptcy those thoughts were instantly crushed......
#35
What amazes me is everyone focusing on this crash to fix the future problems. What about the american eagle in indiana killing everyone onboard 14 yrs ago. Both pilots were exprienced and the captain had tona time on the ATR but they were still holding for 40 min in severe icing condition and same exact senerio with flaps retraction and stick shaker and the finally the roll. The gov decided to blame the crash on the airplane design which was fraud, I flew ATR's in worst weather and had friends flying the machine in finland and denmark for so many yrs and no incident. I think we're 15 yrs too late and the feds should have adress the problem then.
#36
Tin,
You're right.....but I believe that's a GREAT thing! There are way to many flight schools that will just take people's money without regard. If nothing else, raising the minimums will eliminate a lot of people that want to just pay their way through to minimums and start applying. Yes, this will still happen with the richest of the rich but I truly believe it's a GREAT start to eliminating people with more money than sense.
I, very much, want to get back to traditional training methods as a minimum. A four year degree, ATP or Military equivalent......but will settle for something close.
Last edited by DeltaPaySoon; 05-20-2009 at 12:19 PM.
#37
Power levers left at idle, airspeed decay...
Cause:
Icing???
To the thread- there is a new generation of pilots that, because of market need and the advances in automation/safety/warning systems, do not need 3000-4000 hours of piston to safely fly today's jets/advanced t-props.
They need proper mentoring...
And if they can't maintain airspeed, altitude and heading, they need to look elsewhere for employment...
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
ATP for both pilots probably wouldn't have prevented this crash. She had the hours. I can't really blame her for messing up - FOs go to the SIM once a year for a two hour brush up? How many times do you think she practiced stall recoveries in the last year? Probably not very many times.
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MD-80 FO
Posts: 91
Anyone who dissagrees with article is insane. ATPs and type ratings should be the norm in the 121 world.
I can't have a conversation with friends outside the industry without trying to explain our current situation to them. Pinnacle pilots screwing in the woods or worse... in the case of their crash. Comairs crash where the FO wouldnt stop talking about all of our companies problems and the Captain that didnt put the parking brake on... and TELL HIM to **** THE HELL UP.
Never mind the nonsense that exists at Mesa, Go Jet, etc.
Everyone outside the airline industry is baffled by the fact that an airplane painted in mainline colors, sold by mainline..... would be flown by some entirely different company whos captain flunked every checkride and was only at the airline for 4 years despite being 47 years old... and an FO that was scared of a normal icing situation.
The publc is calling for single carrier solutions to this problem. ie... no Regional sub-par airlines.
I just hope there has been enough blood priority to make this happen.
I can't have a conversation with friends outside the industry without trying to explain our current situation to them. Pinnacle pilots screwing in the woods or worse... in the case of their crash. Comairs crash where the FO wouldnt stop talking about all of our companies problems and the Captain that didnt put the parking brake on... and TELL HIM to **** THE HELL UP.
Never mind the nonsense that exists at Mesa, Go Jet, etc.
Everyone outside the airline industry is baffled by the fact that an airplane painted in mainline colors, sold by mainline..... would be flown by some entirely different company whos captain flunked every checkride and was only at the airline for 4 years despite being 47 years old... and an FO that was scared of a normal icing situation.
The publc is calling for single carrier solutions to this problem. ie... no Regional sub-par airlines.
I just hope there has been enough blood priority to make this happen.
#40
Way out of line...
It sounds like Sully pretty much threw CRM out the window, was flying AND talking on the radios and whatever else. Skiles basically rode down with the rest of them.
As a side note, I think that military attitude of "sit over there and don't touch anything", is likely a double edged sword. It worked out in the end though, can't argue with that.
We can all dream all day long about what minimums should be. Minimums will be dictated on supply and demand. Right now, Colgan can adjust their minimums up just by using some whiteout, because they ain't hiring. Once pilots become a commodity again, that'll be thrown out of the window.
As a side note, I think that military attitude of "sit over there and don't touch anything", is likely a double edged sword. It worked out in the end though, can't argue with that.
We can all dream all day long about what minimums should be. Minimums will be dictated on supply and demand. Right now, Colgan can adjust their minimums up just by using some whiteout, because they ain't hiring. Once pilots become a commodity again, that'll be thrown out of the window.
So you're saying Skiles was a Popsicle in the right seat?
Who do you think was running the Emergency checklist trying to get one of the engines started? What level of priority would you give that? CRM generally dictates that in an emergency, one pilot flies and talks while the other pilot runs the checklist.
I'm willing to bet that Skiles had his hands full with the limited amount of time available to him, and a lot riding on his following the checklist precisely to get an engine back on line.
I don't believe there's any reason to question Sully and his CRM skills, or Skiles' actions.
Hog
Last edited by Groundhog; 05-20-2009 at 12:59 PM.
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