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Hudson Crash FO's Letter to USA Today

Old 05-20-2009, 11:35 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Tinpusher007 View Post
The guy who said this:

"My FAA-issued pilot's license does not say "regional flying only." It has my name with a picture of Wilbur and Orville Wright on the back. My point is that you can trust the U.S. airline system. Don't think lowest bidder. Think leanest operator with the sharpest management team.

So go online, search for that lowest fare and keep flying. It's a wonderful and safe world out there."

definitely loses me in his last few sentences. Don't get me wrong...Im not going to drive my aircraft into the ground just because Im paid poorly. But give me a break with the "leanest operator with sharpest management" BS.
Sharpest management.... AHHHHHHAHHHHAHHHHAHHH!!!!!
He hasn't met our CEO with the public speaking abilities of a retarded rock. He hasn't met one of our VP's that has continuously shot down the half time line proposal for crews to save the company money because "then benefits should be cut in half as well so we will just pay 100 extra people FULL PAY AND BENEFITS instead of half pay and full benefits to the tune of half a mil savings to the company" With that fiscal sense he should be a senior US senator.....
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:35 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Tinpusher007 View Post
I agree with this in theory, but I think the cost of getting an ATP might be cost prohibitive to alot of people. The biggest wallet doesn't equal the best pilot.
You get someone else to pay for your hours (either the government or your employer, usually a flight school where you're a CFI). It's what CFI's and military aviators and the like have been doing for years. Being a CFI means you command the aircraft and have to make command decisions while you build the experience needed to meet the ATP minimums. Being a military officer certainly allows you to build command experience and decision making skills - the military aviator just specializes in aircraft specific decisions and skills.

Don't want to be a CFI, have no talent for teaching, have bad eyes so the military doesn't want you? Fine. Go fly piston freight with your commercial license. Just don't expect you should be able to perform as a airline pilot without being licensed as such.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:43 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Purpleanga View Post
Well.. exactly. What is the incentive for future pilots to show up for class under the current airline conditions?
Aren't you a furloughed RJ FO? If so, what's your incentive to accept recall? Even if you're not, what was your incentive to show up for class @ your regional? It's likely similar to the incentive future RJ FO's have today.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:47 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Tinpusher007 View Post
I agree with this in theory, but I think the cost of getting an ATP might be cost prohibitive to alot of people. The biggest wallet doesn't equal the best pilot. Perhaps the initial PC should be a PIC type ride for all newhires.

I have argued for that from day one here... I tried to get them to type me as a new hire ( I already had the ATP AND a jet type ) and was told not possible. (this in the Avro sim where you could taxi in the right seat including tiller) I tried to get them to type me on the Saab(and test to keep the circ vmc only off) and was told no on both dispite the obvious impending upgrade for all of us in that and several after classes. I can only imagine how much money was wasted bringing people back into a full 2.5 month class for upgrade within 6 months of initial. Granted I ended up skipping Saab captain but at the bottom of the jet list, with any displacements then instead of 2 sims and a PC it's 2.5 months at 900 pay and a full course cost...... You'd think this would be a great money saving opportunity since how much more would it cost to give the PIC checkride initially? From what I know only Skyway gave the option and Compass just outright does type all FO's.... I know of no other regional (and for that matter majors on the domestic equipment) that will even if requested.

There was actually a manager here that agreed with my thinking but thanks to the bankruptcy those thoughts were instantly crushed......
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:53 AM
  #35  
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What amazes me is everyone focusing on this crash to fix the future problems. What about the american eagle in indiana killing everyone onboard 14 yrs ago. Both pilots were exprienced and the captain had tona time on the ATR but they were still holding for 40 min in severe icing condition and same exact senerio with flaps retraction and stick shaker and the finally the roll. The gov decided to blame the crash on the airplane design which was fraud, I flew ATR's in worst weather and had friends flying the machine in finland and denmark for so many yrs and no incident. I think we're 15 yrs too late and the feds should have adress the problem then.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tinpusher007 View Post
I agree with this in theory, but I think the cost of getting an ATP might be cost prohibitive to alot of people. The biggest wallet doesn't equal the best pilot. Perhaps the initial PC should be a PIC type ride for all newhires.

Tin,

You're right.....but I believe that's a GREAT thing! There are way to many flight schools that will just take people's money without regard. If nothing else, raising the minimums will eliminate a lot of people that want to just pay their way through to minimums and start applying. Yes, this will still happen with the richest of the rich but I truly believe it's a GREAT start to eliminating people with more money than sense.

I, very much, want to get back to traditional training methods as a minimum. A four year degree, ATP or Military equivalent......but will settle for something close.

Last edited by DeltaPaySoon; 05-20-2009 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:05 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by brownie View Post
What amazes me is everyone focusing on this crash to fix the future problems.
Problem:
Power levers left at idle, airspeed decay...
Cause:
Icing???

To the thread- there is a new generation of pilots that, because of market need and the advances in automation/safety/warning systems, do not need 3000-4000 hours of piston to safely fly today's jets/advanced t-props.

They need proper mentoring...

And if they can't maintain airspeed, altitude and heading, they need to look elsewhere for employment...
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:11 PM
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ATP for both pilots probably wouldn't have prevented this crash. She had the hours. I can't really blame her for messing up - FOs go to the SIM once a year for a two hour brush up? How many times do you think she practiced stall recoveries in the last year? Probably not very many times.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:18 PM
  #39  
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Anyone who dissagrees with article is insane. ATPs and type ratings should be the norm in the 121 world.
I can't have a conversation with friends outside the industry without trying to explain our current situation to them. Pinnacle pilots screwing in the woods or worse... in the case of their crash. Comairs crash where the FO wouldnt stop talking about all of our companies problems and the Captain that didnt put the parking brake on... and TELL HIM to **** THE HELL UP.

Never mind the nonsense that exists at Mesa, Go Jet, etc.

Everyone outside the airline industry is baffled by the fact that an airplane painted in mainline colors, sold by mainline..... would be flown by some entirely different company whos captain flunked every checkride and was only at the airline for 4 years despite being 47 years old... and an FO that was scared of a normal icing situation.

The publc is calling for single carrier solutions to this problem. ie... no Regional sub-par airlines.

I just hope there has been enough blood priority to make this happen.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bryris View Post
It sounds like Sully pretty much threw CRM out the window, was flying AND talking on the radios and whatever else. Skiles basically rode down with the rest of them.

As a side note, I think that military attitude of "sit over there and don't touch anything", is likely a double edged sword. It worked out in the end though, can't argue with that.

We can all dream all day long about what minimums should be. Minimums will be dictated on supply and demand. Right now, Colgan can adjust their minimums up just by using some whiteout, because they ain't hiring. Once pilots become a commodity again, that'll be thrown out of the window.
How/where did you come up with that conclusion?

So you're saying Skiles was a Popsicle in the right seat?

Who do you think was running the Emergency checklist trying to get one of the engines started? What level of priority would you give that? CRM generally dictates that in an emergency, one pilot flies and talks while the other pilot runs the checklist.
I'm willing to bet that Skiles had his hands full with the limited amount of time available to him, and a lot riding on his following the checklist precisely to get an engine back on line.

I don't believe there's any reason to question Sully and his CRM skills, or Skiles' actions.

Hog

Last edited by Groundhog; 05-20-2009 at 12:59 PM.
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