How Can we band together and take it to DC?
 

The more time passes the more I see this profession go to crap. ALPA and Teamsters aren't doing anything to help us. Is there a way that we could get together a petition to take to DC to force better labor laws for our profession? I mean things like the obvious pay issues but also a national seniority list so that a CA with 15k hours doesn't have to start over should his job disaper. Also things like not flying 117k/lb jets for regional pay, pension protection for all of us, etc.. I had a old guy jump seat with us and he said that he lost over 500k of his retirement because the airline filed bankruptcy. This type of thing has got to stop. I am and have always been one for free market etc etc... but when a few managers can run such a "big ship" into the ground its all the 'little guys" that take the fall for it. Its like the captain of the ship getting off first. Its so backwards it should be criminal. Controling/regulating this type of thing is what government is for in my book. Their job should be to protect the individual not the book keepers. I mean look what the gov is doing for the auto workers! I am not saying its right but they now own a big chunk of GM. If the gov can do that for them they could do it for us. Better work rules for all and no more of this mgmt whip saw crap thats ruining our profession.

What can we do as a group to band together? Can we lobby? Does anyone have any experience in Washington? Could we start a group? With all the furloughs (self included) out there we should be able to come up with something that could get some attention. Am I nuts to think this could be done? Are there too many big dogs out there to keep us from being heard?
If we can get enough people then take it to the Major side and see if they would join us in a effort to change our futures and not let the money changers change it for us! Now. What to call it? Maybe its just a pipe dream but I would really like to see it happen. I will do my part. WHO IS WITH ME?

I'm wondering why ALPA/Teamsters don't come together and plan informational pickets in DC. Why do them at the airports when you could get the permits and do it at Capitol Hill? Want to raise public awareness well there you go. If a group of hippies can make it on CNN by marching around outside why can't a well funded and organized group of unions do it? What better time than with a pro union president in the seat?

The more I think about it the more I think it would have to be a non profit org that would work off of donations. It would have to not shut out the unions but encourage their support. It would require several officers and a PO box so no one "disappears" when the senate starts to take notice. I do have "sit down" access to at least one Senator. So I know I can get one of them to listen to our case.
I see it going like this. We get pilots on this forum and others to give their address on a website I set up with a log in for each person. We send them a form to sign and send back. We poll everyone as to what kind of regulation they want to see and put it all in a petition that we present via our Senator's and hope they can move it to action. Ie. put it in the "new health bill" and pass it through that way or some other. It could happen. Why the hell not?

I'm not even a 121 driver, and I have no travel benefits, but I am IN. I'm all for making this career worthwhile again.

The question is what are we seeking?

I think the only things we could realistically get are things that improve safety for the public.

I would work for more realistic duty/rest times. Many companies have taken the 8 hour rest rule as a reason to screw us rather than relief for unavoidable acts of god. It may not improve pay, but at least we wouldn't be whipped like mules.

What is it each of you want? And is what you want in the public interest (something that a congressman could brandish as helping his constituency).

Anything outside of changing rest/duty rules to AT LEAST as conservative at Part 135 and mandating an Airline Transport Pilot license to fly as an airline pilot will be construed by lawmakers and the public as little more than whining.

If any of the unions had the nuts to threaten a national strike then maybe we could accomplish something. Is it illegal for them to threaten one even if they have no intention of going through with it? At least it would get people thinking and realizing what pilots are actually worth to this country.

I am wondering why guys ratify a crappy contract, and don't have the balls to say no to it.

The Railway Labor Act.

"The unions" are made up of pilots. IF the pilots as a whole want to do something, they collectively can either compel their elected/appointed leadership to do their wishes OR change leadership and get somebody in who will. Either way, it starts with a ground-swell movement from within each pilot group, one member at a time.

Until that time when the majority of pilots get totally fed up and are willing to put their careers on the line...apathy from within the ranks will continue to rule, pilots who refuse to educate & inform themselves will continue to have unrealistic expectations of their union and union leadership, and people will continue to bypass the ideals of brotherhood and unity for "what is best for me - now".

In its most basic form, consider it a failure of leadership...the movement you desire requires membership and leadership willing to make great personal sacrifices for the good of the profession and collective and take great risk with their careers and families. Are you volunteering?

This is getting old.

I think this may already be in the works. There was something on the press wires right after the Colgan NTSB hearings about something between the Business Travellers Coalition and the Teamsters calling for developing some kind of policy that covered the whole range from experience to pay.

I'll see if I can find the link.

The idea DOES have some merit. It's time to eliminate the "us and them" mentality within the profession. If a single list were to become reality, ALL seniority would have to be of equal value (mainline and regional alike) so any 15,000 captain (or 20 years seniority) has the same proetections and opportunities as any other.

Ahhh.......it'd never work. The "us and them" ( or "have and have not" - take your pick) mentality is too ingrained and thus our continued downfall is assured. We are where we are because of our own mentality and we will go where we are now destined to go.

If only we could go back 15 years in time.

I could see starting pay in the 35K range and new requirments for ATP's for all new airline pilots with more extensive training upon hire. That would probabaly satisfy the politicians and make it look like they did something. The general public would then feel more confident.

Anything more then that approximation is HIGHLY unlikely. Yes, it appears some may use this to further their own financial agendas and leverage to gain more at the bargaining table, but most travelers are not in unions, are generally anti-union and consider many pilot groups fairly greedy (right or wrong) and thus wouldn't be interested in that. The politicians know who has more clout with them (big business) and would have to appease a workable solution for them.

The primary motivation for politicians to enact change will be to :

A. Look good to the public and their consitituents.
B. Consider the needs of those that have sway with them (big business).
C. Consider the cost to the taxpayers.
D. Not unduly burden the consumer (in this case passenger) by excess.
E. The interests of airline employees (very distant 5th here).

Any changes that do come will be fairly modest.

This is it!

Guys, before we can fight all the small battles and issues we have to get some leverage. As of right now, nobody listens to us! All we are doing now is screaming for change with our hands tied on our backs. If we had the same ability to strike as everyone else we could fight our battles and change the industry for the better. Read up on the RLA, write your congressman or come up with a suggestion to free us from the inhibitions and delays that the RLA puts on our ability to protest. You owe it to yourself.

We cannot ask congress to make the changes for us, but we can ask them to let us fight a fair fight.

Bout the only labor union who is willing to do that is TSA.

Then we get panned on this board for not ROLLING OVER and securing the flying.....but thats another story.