Regional Airline Pay
 

First off, Im not a pilot. Im a firefighter in Atlanta, GA. I was very close to going to ATP for their ASPP...12months while I keep my job here and train. However, I was clueless, ignorant, whatever...to the fact of how bad the pay is at the regionals. I can see first year pay around 25K at the least due to training $ invested. But after that I assumed it would be 50K and up a year. Im on a CRJ 700 out of Atlanta to Syracuse, NY this month. Over 1000 miles...what is "regional" about that. Arent the CRJ about as big as the small DC-9 the majors used to fly and still do?? Even a brain surgeon doesnt have the responsibility or lives in his hands at once as a Airline Pilot w/ 50 bodies flying through a thunderstorm. I find it insulting that people w/ such a technical skill and responsibility are paid less than a bus driver w/ 0 skill or education! I can see in the 80's when regionals were really "regional" in a 1900 or Metro...but Cmon...50+ seat aircraft that fly mach .72+! I really dont understand how this happens and w/ your guys ALPU allows it? Im just glad I stumbled on this forum and hope that something changes soon...as for now I guess Ill go get my PVT and put the "dream" on hold.

From the fire to the furnace!~

You have already figured it out, keep your firefighter job!!!

Now you are just messing with us, right?

Most of the compensation is the satisfaction of doing the job. As a whole, the pilot population would swim laps in a pool of #$@* to continue to fly airplanes for a living because "it beats working", has an awe factor when you tell your friends, the ladies dig it - all of the above.

Accordingly, the ranks will still be filled and lines out the doors if pay was cut even more. Pilots do this job because they love it - then once in, they'll talk about how important pay is. But pay is a secondary concern to most new entrants. Just getting a jet job is the primary success.

Major pilots are paid fairly well. But, even if they weren't, they'd still stick around because after that investment, there is little ability to start over in another career path.

Pilots are their own worse enemies.

Uhhh...not messing with anyone. I just dont understand why the pay is like it is at the airlines. I was very close to stepping in way over my head financially with a girl name Sallie May in complete ignorance. I first stumbled on the board to get a feel as to what prof in the industry have to say and advice. I learned alot in a very short amount of time.

Flying for the airlines is pretty much the exact opposite of the general public's opinion of it.

Obviously pay varies with different companies. I work for a "decent" regional and in my second year I grossed over 49k (around 5k perdiem for the year) and will have already made 26k gross by the end of June. Do your research.

Stay a fireman.

Better pay, better schedule, better retirement, And most importantly, chicks dig it.

I second that. If you really want to be around airplanes, I'm sure you can get a gig at one of the stations at the airport.

Which one, and how did you gross over 49K. For real, im not being a smart a&& but i have never heard of those kinds of numbers.

Not sure how many CBA's you've worked under. At my previous employer, most FO's on 2nd year of higher could gross this much. And that was on 2001-2004 RJ FO pay rates. Mainly through the language that dealt with pay concerning transition conflict, training conflict, vacation conflict, etc.

The current "industry leading" CBA I work under, don't think it's possible.

I grossed over the above number in 2002, only put about 700 hour in my logbook. Guess how much open time I picked up? You can probably figure it out.

My second year at XJT I did about 48-49K as well with an average of 14 days off, not uncommon when you have decent contract with a little picking up open time and red flag in the summer (pre-furloughs of course).

Skywest, 8 months of second year pay and 4 months of third year pay.
I was a little off not quite 49k but $48,755.

Total Credit: 1,174 hrs (includes line flying, holiday pay, 700/900 override, sim, recurrent, some voluntary JR Man, vacation)

$1,600 in bonuses
just under $5,000 in perdiem

Total Block: 934 hrs (we have duty rigs and minimum day guarantees that help bring the credit up above block time)

Those numbers aren't surprising at many regionals. We have many F/O's at Eagle with comparable numbers. I've made in excess of $120K/year for the last 4 years here, but you've got to be a topped out captain to do it (and creative).

If the firefighter wants to fly, he'll not see a whole lot of money for at least a year or two and then the numbers above start to become possible (45-50K). There are a lot of former big paycheck earners out there now unemployed or grossly underemployed who would LOVE 45K/year and health care for their families.

All the above said is true. I'm at XJT also and make about $45,000 a year. However, beware that the lifestyle can put a tremendous pressure on other factors of life. For example, does your spouse work? Will they be able to continue to work and handle the kids with you gone 4-5 days a week. How about maintenance of the home? You won't be around to help out as much as you have in the past. Will you be able to afford a merry maid service? Do you have family near by to help with kids? Also, if you have to commute, there may be times you'll find yourself in a bind, and have to start pulling out money to make your show (e.g. Renting cars, Hotel rooms, taking shuttles, taxis etc.) These are all things to factor in, and all the more reason that whether you're making $45,000 dollars or $100,000 dollars in this job, it is still insufficient...and $16,000 is downright criminal.

elijahmike,

I really DO think that the quiet times like now, are the ideal times to finish your ratings and be READY and WAITING for the next hiring wave. In that regard you were told the truth by ATP.

BUT-where you are in life, I agree with the others--DO NOT leave fire fighting. Find a nice plane to buy outright or get into a partnership. Live your dream that way. Honestly. You won't make enough money to buy a plane working for a regional-at least not for a long time.

Oh, and spread the knowledge. The public needs to be made aware of what working conditions are like at the airlines. The public still thinks pilots live like Ron Burgundy from the movie Anchorman. Not so, not so.

True, it starts out this way - I used to love the job. Love of the job just goes so far. After swimming a few laps of @#$@#$!, it starts to smell. After a hundred, it tastes bad, and after a thousand, it just isn't worth it. We may be approaching the point where people just have had their fill - and the resignations start to pile up.

After my first furlough (post 9/11), I found out I'd spent so much effort getting where I was (major airline), that I was totally unmarketable outside aviation. My degree was useless, and nobody would hire me knowing I'd like to go back when I could. After almost eighteen months of flight instruction and trying everything I could, I got hired at a non-sched cargo operater, and spent four years there. I got hired two years ago in a another "end-career" position, and am now looking at my second furlough.

:rolleyes:Yes, I used to love it - but that won't feed the kids or keep a roof over my family. I won't work for $25 for a regional job, nor will I prostitute myself to fly 934 hours a year, away from home 28 days a month, to make $49K. This job is just not worth it. Instead, I'm gonna toss away 26 years of experience and walk away.

Hopefully, I'll find something that lets me be home each night. I do understand and am betting that someone reading this is licking their chops, thinking - 'go ahead, make space for ME'. Well, it's all yours - what's left of it.

FD

Yes, very doable pay. I only worked 7 months for SkyWest in 2008, and most of it was on 2nd year FO pay flying the CRJ. I earned about $27,000 for that time.

My first year FO pay at a foreign airline operating the same CRJ aircraft is $66k, plus about $8000 per diem, for about $74k total. Tax free. One month off, paid, every two months. Plus all expenses paid (meals, housing, medicals, airfare back home every month off, van transport).

Captains, of course, make significantly more.

I must be missing something – I thought Per Diem was to eat, etc.? It is not pay and it should not be counted as compensation. Also, $49K is better than a stick in the eye, but you had to fly almost 80 hrs a month and I am guessing you spent a fair amount of time on the road. I don’t know about your age, but if you are in your twenties, single, etc. it's no problem. After grinding it out like that for year after year it will become unbearable for most people. I think pilots should be able to make a decent living in this business without having to become road *****s.

Convert to a major
 

Unless you can convert to a solid legacy at a fairly young age it is difficult to find financial sense this career.

In general wages, QOL and benefits at most regionals fall way short of being worth the investment and sacrifices it takes to get there.

SKyhigh

Here's what I'm amazed with. How in the #$%%, in today's economy and training costs, can so many people afford to even ATTEMPT to get ratings for this job?

Seriously, how many lenders can look at this profession with all the job cuts and furloughs and believe lending is a quality choice? I know the number of people that are starting training is down but I figured that we would hear reports of closings all over the nation.

Enjoy your swim, I'll go manage the McDonalds.

Give it a little time; I think places will start closing. In the interim I know flight schools are down to bare bones staffing. I know the flight schools in my area are scary slow. From what (admittedly little) I have heard of the puppy mills, they are surviving on their foreign contracted students, not the American students.

I'm wondering when the foreign countries are going to stop sending their students over here to train, and start doing it themselves...Any bets?

When it costs more in other countries. Now, the dollar is weak against other world currencies, so it's still cheaper.

And Cessnas and avgas are still cheaper here. And US rules are generally more lax regarding getting the licenses, unless they are getting their JAR here.

On the plus side, with Sallie Mae no longer writing aviation loans, and Key bank getting out of the aviation loan business a few years ago, less people will be able to get the funding to attend flight school. This should equal fewer pilots, and push demand up. I think we all agree that a big part of the problem is an abundance of people willing to fly fo peanuts, so this should look good for us. If demand for pilots goes up, maybe pay will too. The other thing to consider is that people are starting to realize that flying pays better overseas. The more pilots over there chasing a decent paycheck, the fewer pilots here to work for food.

Agreed. I think this will help, plus the age 65, plus the economic turn around should all hit about the same time...or so I hope.