Airway

I think after the new assignments and lines came out today (some of us have not budged on the seniority list in some time), it's apparent that after this summer's drop in hours, current FOs, anyone with seniority less than 11-1200 or so, will be FOs for a very long time to come.

Approaching year 3 here and losing the ability to hold a line next month (only held lines for 3 months in those 2 years anyway), and the fact that things will get worse after the summer as SH already stated, I can't imagine a scenario where we will be upgrading at any noticeable rate until the age 65 effect manifests itself in 2013 or so.

Come to think of it, this may very likely be the case everywhere. But I can't speak for anyone else.

newarkblows

the only people growing are the crappy companies that treat their employees like garbage... Sucks to want to make a living doing this.

xjt is right there behind you. Probably going to be a 5-6 yr upgrade for most.

dashtrash300

I am sorry to hear that. Sounds about the same here at Piedmont. Our top 20 or 30 guys average 1948 and early 1950's birthdays which is 2013 for our earliest retirement. Not to mention the 7 more airplanes we are giving back to the leasers between September or December (11 total) bringing our fleet down to 43 with 477 total pilots and 454 active pilots. Furloughs to come

Intl Jumper

The lines just came out today at ASA and I cant figure something out. SH says there is a record amount of flying this summer, yet they built way less lines at much higher credit... so if your on reserve you actually move backwards... what gives?

Bucking Bar

Amazing how the growth spurts come and go. This is the worst I've seen across the entire industry. (The last decade hit the majors hard but there were times that ASA was junior manning Captains out of new hire classes. Anyone with ATP mins was a candidate for instant E120 Captain - and that type ride was a beastly thing).

There will be times coming when 8% of Delta's list retires in a year. I'd think there would be plenty of ASA pilots hired and plenty of movement up the ladder for everyone.

afterburn81

Which bird are you on? We all know the 200 lines are decreasing. I have noticed an increase in the lines on the 700/900 every month. So the flying is there just on a different airplane. It took me about 8 months if I remember correctly to start holding a line. That may have been premature because of the way people bid when the line credit starting going down. But it sure beats the crap out of reserve. They got you by the balls when you are on reserve.

Airway

Actually, this is the only smart thing they've done. The reserve pilots were flying more than many line pilots, and many line pilots were flying 4 day trips crediting 17-18 hours. You had reserves coming in for a roundtrip and going back home 5 days later. The only solution would be to cut the lines and credit them higher, and as a result have better reserve staffing. We were cancelling flights for crew shortages.

The airline wants to muscle us into PBS anyway. The red arrow days (and the fact that the entire month on the FO side is red arrow--every single day this month) are nothing more than a management tactic to force us to vote in some crappy bidding system that might be great for the 90 year old guys we have here, but suck for the rest of us.

The Brad Holt honeymoon is over, Delta's Anderson is a jacka$$, and there isn't really anything anyone can do. I can only blame ASA for being jerks about the red arrow days (real dick move in my opinion), which are a contract violation. I can also blame ALPA for being ball-less in the face of increasing management pressure. The fact that FOs make 20-30K on average in the right seat at most regionals is pretty sad. And what's sadder is that if you could actually negotiate a reasonable FO salary (55-60K a year), it would require reinventing the wheel.

As other opportunities have risen, I doubt I'll be here in the near future. I knew what the game was when I got hired, but I got hired before the economy crashed, and wasn't looking at being in the right seat for 8 years. Things change, and so will my plans.

Hope things change for the better for everyone else's sake.

hslightnin

while that is A solution its not the only one and far from the best.

Whacker77

I know it sucks, but if the last 18 months have taught us anything, it's that things can turn around almost on a dime. Things are usually never as bad as they seem and never as good as they seem.

After 9/11, who would have thought regional carriers would begin hiring just 18 months later. I know the economic conditions aren't the same, but we were coming out of difficult recession in 2002. The unwinding of the tech boom hurt.

I'm not even going to attempt to paint a rosy picture for anyone, but I think it's premature to discuss Eagle style upgrade times. Some of the pilot groups at the legacy carriers are older than you think. Hiring could snap back before you know it (or it may not).

atlmsl

I don't think this is anything to worry about. This is how the industry works. Just before I got hired upgrade times were 4-5 years. By the end of the hiring boom they were down to 2.5 years. Obviously when the majors aren't hiring people don't leave. When they begin to hire then people will leave. It's the cycle we have seen a million times. Many other airlines are in the same boat. Bad timing, maybe? But we have 2.5 year upgrades flying around right now even with our senior pilot group. Things will improve when the whole industry improves. It sucks for everyone now.