Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional
FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407... >

FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407...

Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407...

Old 08-05-2009, 06:04 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
mjarosz's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: DHC-8 100/300 CA
Posts: 238
Default FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407...

FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407 transcript : Home: The Buffalo News

FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407 transcript

By Jerry Zremski
News Washington Bureau Chief


WASHINGTON — The new head of the Federal Aviation Administration today asked the nation's airline pilots to read the transcript of the cockpit conversations from Continental Connection Flight 3407, which crashed in Clarence in February, claiming 50 lives.
"If you haven't read the transcript, I'd encourage you to do so," FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said at the Air Line Pilots Association's annual Air Safety Summitt.
The transcript shows Capt. Marvin Renslow and First Officer Rebecca L. Shaw violating federal "sterile cockpit" rules by discussing things that were not flight-related as the plane began its descent into Buffalo.
"This is not the first time this issue has been raised," Babbitt said, noting that sterile-cockpit violations have been found in other fatal crashes.
While noting that the FAA and Congress are hard at work to toughen flight safety standards -- most notably those aimed at preventing pilot fatigue -- Babbitt told the pilots that the government could do only so much.
"We simply cannot regulate professionalism," said Babbitt, a retired pilot and former president of the pilots union. "Safety comes down to one thing: it's us."
Babbitt also indicated for the first time that he would be willing to consider random spot checks of cockpit voice recorders in planes that do not crash, just to monitor whether sterile cockpit violations are occurring.


Really gotta love that last paragraph. Sets a dangerous precedent.
-MJ
mjarosz is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:22 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Default

Babbitt also indicated for the first time that he would be willing to consider random spot checks of cockpit voice recorders in planes that do not crash, just to monitor whether sterile cockpit violations are occurring.


Doesn't that pretty much do against all previous precedents for the use of cockpit voice recorders? Great, so in a career where you can already lose your job for a random medical issue, one misuse of the autopilot, checkride failure etc etc etc, now we're going to add spot checks of cockpit voice recorders. At least we're getting paid well....
Blueskies21 is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:26 PM
  #3  
Permanent Ready Reserve
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Upright and Locked
Posts: 969
Default

Isn't that a direct violation of the FARS?

I even seem to remember an ATP written question specifically asking if cockpit voice recorders could be used in certificate or legal action.
TristarJS30 is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:37 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
sinsilvia666's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 659
Default

dont forget the pay, treatment, and commuting issues, im sure commentary on life outside the cockpit wasnt alone what did this accident
sinsilvia666 is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:38 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TPROP4ever's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Default

Originally Posted by TristarJS30 View Post
Isn't that a direct violation of the FARS?

I even seem to remember an ATP written question specifically asking if cockpit voice recorders could be used in certificate or legal action.
Somehow I think babbit has the ability to change the FAR's. And yes this will set a very dangerous precedent
TPROP4ever is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:40 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 443
Default

That rule is broken thousands of times everyday in regional, major, legacy and low cost carrier cockpits. There are more important things to look at. Sully violated it, the Continental pilots in DEN violated it, the WN pilots in Midway violated it, I'm sure Babbitt violated it on a daily basis. But, the Mesa pilots in Hawaii didn't violate it because they were ASLEEP. I read the whole CVR and found it not nearly as bad as I've seen in a cockpit. Violating sterile did not cause this accident.

I think Mr. Babbitt should read the USAir 1549 transcript where Sully and Jeff are talking about the Delta/NW merger during the push, then Sully calls ops on his Cell phone while they are monitoring tower for takeoff.
shfo is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:44 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
EWRflyr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,879
Default

Originally Posted by TristarJS30 View Post
Isn't that a direct violation of the FARS?

I even seem to remember an ATP written question specifically asking if cockpit voice recorders could be used in certificate or legal action.
Doing an "audit" like FOQA could be argued as looking at trends. The FAA might do a sampling of a certain percentage of voice recorders and could come out with results saying "the vast majority of pilots adhere to the sterile cockpit rule from what we have seen" or "the sterile cockpit rule needs extra emphasis in airline pilot recurrent training based on the data we have sampled to date."

Just playing devils advocate as this would not be using the voice recorders for certifcate or legal action.
EWRflyr is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:45 PM
  #8  
Permanent Ready Reserve
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Upright and Locked
Posts: 969
Default

Originally Posted by TPROP4ever View Post
Somehow I think babbit has the ability to change the FAR's. And yes this will set a very dangerous precedent
If there was ever a time for ALPA to do something... this is it.
TristarJS30 is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:57 PM
  #9  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 79
Default

More to the point, rather than monitoring pilot cockpit conversation, monitor senior airline CEO and FAA Bosses conversations. Their "stewardship" has led to this situation, where impoverished crewmembers struggle for a few hours sleep prior to extended duty after debilitating commutes, whilst the CEOs live the high life, and self-important FAA Czars pontificate with Fat-Cat Congressmen and Senators. This has deteriorated for 30+ years, and all the "connected" folk know it's really an extended game, played out for the Rubes. Sadly, it seems, now senior ALPA members have given in to the deteriorating status quo, and disaster after disaster will follow, and nobody cares, as long as connected peoples' bottom lines are protected.
Semaphore Sam is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 07:05 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SmoothOnTop's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: retired
Posts: 645
Default

Originally Posted by shfo View Post
That rule is broken thousands of times everyday in regional, major, legacy and low cost carrier cockpits. There are more important things to look at. Sully violated it,

I think Mr. Babbitt should read the USAir 1549 transcript where Sully and Jeff are talking about the Delta/NW merger during the push, then Sully calls ops on his Cell phone while they are monitoring tower for takeoff.
Hey, if the parking brake is set, couldn't that call to ops be okay?
SmoothOnTop is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SkyHigh
Leaving the Career
41
01-08-2010 07:02 AM
ToiletDuck
Hangar Talk
6
08-07-2009 12:12 PM
XSive
Regional
25
06-18-2009 04:10 PM
forgot to bid
Major
15
11-25-2008 09:21 PM
flyharm
Mergers and Acquisitions
5
09-11-2008 05:08 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices