Two offers - need to decide
 

Looking for some advice... just out of a 4 year degree program, got my minimum hours and am fortunate to have offers from both Mesa and Eagle. From the forum it seems like Mesa stinks but upgrade time is good. Eagle sounds like you love 'em or hate 'em, more structured organization but longer upgrade (not sure how long but I hear up to 10 years) Others on the forum seem to be recommending use both of them just to get 121 experience and move to a better regional. I tried with ExpressJet but not successful. Any thoughts on what I should consider between the two.

Texdog

Both are sh*t companies, but the reasons differ. Two sensible approaches...

1) Get some 121 turbine time then lateral over to a better regional like Skywest or Horizon. If you want to do that, then base your decision on available domiciles; as a really junior FO living in or really near domicile is the only thing that can enhance your lifestyle. You won't be there long enough for anything else to matter (like pay or upgrade time).

2) Quick PIC: Go to mesa. Both mesa and eagle suck, but why suck in the right seat for 7+ years?


If you are thinking of actually STAYING at mesa or eagle for a long time, you need to seriously re-evaluate and refer to option (1).


BTW, I was in your exact situation a few years back...

Mesa. (yes they suck) Get the PIC and go to a major. Don't lateral over to another regional. It is not worth it unless you want to make it a career. (Live close to home etc)

Mesa Ground school
 

Thanks for the earlier feedback. Any feedback on the Mesa ground school in terms of quality of instruction, failure rate, etc??

Texdog

There's a reason why they call Mesa "My Employer Sucks A--", and with Eagle, you'll become a crusty old FO, not Captain. Try Pinnacle. I just interviewed there last week. Awesome people, great airline, and a pretty solid business plan. I can't wait to get the call for class! They really make you feel appreciated and at ease.

Pinnacle....great airline, solid business plan.....yeah right!!

I love it.

Oh BTW I got me a fancy new job. Thanks for the advice earlier.

Mesa flight training locations
 

My class date with Mesa is for training in Phoenix. Can someone tell me if that implies what aircraft it will be in. Their rep. couldn't tell me. Didn't know if everybody starts together or if different equipment starts in different locations.

Well, from personal experience, and everyone who I've spoken with... yes they are a great airline. Not sure how willing some people out here are to believe the stuff on these boards. 90% of it is BS from people with either no experience with the airline or never researched any of it.

Either way, one man's trash may be another man's treasure! :D

They won't tell you what equipment you'll be in so they have the flexibility to change the equipment at the last minute. I can tell you that it won't be for the 1900 - that training is done in ICT.

Mesa Equipment
 

Mesa is staffing up their Dash 8 operations right now. There's a very good chance you will end up on that. Educated guess: next most likely piece of equipment would be the CRJ, followed by the ERJ. ERJ operations in Orlando are very well-staffed at this point.

Thats the funniest thing I've read on here in a while. I guess if your business plan is to hitch your wagon to the sinking ship with the red tail and be used as a tool to whipsaw the "other" NWA regional, then yes, they have that down solid....
I interviewed with Pinnacle back in January and I can honestly say I was NOT impressed by the company. Got the runaround from HR twice regarding interview date and location. I gave plenty of notice and moved my interview date up a week due to schedule and convenience issues and then a week later, AFTER I had interviewed, I got an angry call from Paola (head of HR) because I was not there to interview. I could only laugh because I had talked to her and her assistant several times in the previous weeks regarding the interview date. After the fact, someone familiar with Pinnacle told me their HR department was a bit of a cluster. Made me glad that I avoided that whole mess all together.

They probably send you all to PHX for Indoc since that's pretty much the same regardless of where and what you fly. Might even do systems in PHX too. Depending on what airplane you get and sim availability, you will probably be shipped to where the sims are located.

No 1900, that would be in Kansas.

Jungle drums say most likely D-8, maybe ERJ, possibly CRJ.

You may have a split class in which case you will have an opportunity to request a certain airplane (no guarantees).

Invitation to class
 

Interviewed on Wednesday, offered a seat in class starting monday. Talk about hard up! Anyway, I was told the staffing is for the Dash 8 and my upgrade to captain would be in conjunction with my training. I've spoken to a few guys that have done this, and it seems that as long as you perform through IOE, the captain spot is yours.

I seem to be catching the tail end of the captain hiring? Anyone know how many more capts they still need? I'm unable to survive on what they pay the F/O's. Like to know how sure the reality of getting Cpt is.

Who else has been through this route? Dash 8 Capt from the street? Any words of recent experience and wisdom? Besides that fact that it's Mesa, how has it worked out for you?

Thanks

Ronin, don't know about that airline but at ASA back around.... 1999 we were in a bind for captains because we switched to the ICAO capt mins (3,000 total + some other crap) and there was an "off the street" captain new hire in the upgrage class I was in. This was on the EMB 120 at the time and our director of trng was a ball buster. One of those how many rivets are on the hot section kind of guys......
The captain newhire was a very sharp guy with previous 121 experience and he struggled. It is an enormous undertaking to learn a pain in the butt aircraft all the time you are being preped to have a captain level knowledge of the SP (standard practice) company regs, policy, etc.

So, if you have 121 experience and the program is not too much of a ball buster, you can do it. If it is a difficult aircraft or tough program... maybe not.

The other thing to consider is, if they are hireing off the street captains, that should mean they have exhausted their current FO's who qualify to upgradge. Consider the right seat for trng, do the IOE maybe a month on line then, put in for the upgrade. Rumor has it at ASA, when we had our off the street program this is what most of them ended up doing.

Bonne Chance

I don't know if I'd leave a stable job for that...

Normal attrition on the dash training program is VERY high, like 30%+. No good reason, they are just tools. Street CA attrition I assume would be higher still...

I'm guessing it is a cost issue, but Mesa should probably utilize a sim eval as part of their interview process. That would likely lower their washout rate.

I like your way of thinking.

Here is my take.....if you want to move on from the regionals, you need PIC turbine. If Mesa offers a quick upgrade I would go there. Suck it up.....get at least 1500-2000 PIC turbine before you make a move anywhere. You will never lose that time once you have it and you definitely won't get anywhere decent without it. Unless you plan on making Eagle a career, I would steer clear. PIC Turbine is the key. Good Luck.

STEP AWAY FROM THE KOOL AID!

That's the same thing you hear the Mesa interviewees saying post interview on aviationinterviews.com too...neither is a place to hang your hat.

Slice....I love the avatar!

I'd go to Mesa if I had to choose between only these two...I can't imagine being a RJ FO for 7 years! Life is still better in the left seat.

Thx, Maiden and Sponge Bob, can't beat that. :)

Thanks, Stick and Rick. I follow your posts and enjoy your views. I have an opportunity in a Lear 31 for some 91 flying. Never get to the left seat, but it does offer a full type in the right. They only fly about 3 days a week, the rest of the time is yours, pending call outs. Talk about forever reserve! Not sure I'm hip on never having planned days off. That would suck. Decisions, decisions. I wish I knew what I wanted to be when I grow up... at nearly 40, that can be frustrating!

Keep in mind its not as easy as getting 1000hrs PIC turbine and bang automatically hired at a major. Even if you have 5000hrs PIC turbine its still hard to get hired at SWA/CAL/FedEx unless you have connections, so be ready to sit wherever you are until you make some good connections or the hiring boom really hits.

I'm not sure if you made up your mind but I'd say neither. Any other regional is better than those choices. Try PSA or CHTQ or any others. Ordinarely you might hear that turning down a job offer that is a sure thing is not a wise decision but if it's Mesa or Eagle, it's an exception. MESA should be your last choice so much so that I'd even continue CFIing and turning down turbine time, you don't need the MESA BS even as a 5 year captain you still have to report to the chief pilot if you want to go on a few days vacation. No extra pay, plus you only get paid what hours you fly and from what I hear that's at the minimum too, if a 2 hour flight goes 2.5, you still get paid 2 hours or better yet, the check never comes at all.

True

True

False

True, and recently they have done their damnedest to rip you off for the small amount of pay you are entitled to.

Mesa CA's
 

Well, I can definately vouch for most of the previous posts. I was hired this past winter as a street CA's for Mesa and let me tell you that it is NO walk in the park. I had almost 1500 hours PIC in similiar aircraft and it was still tough. Remember that you will only get 8 sim sessions to be up to ATP standards and able to make CA decisions at a moments notice. Your support pilot will simply be doing what you tell him too. He will not make mistakes to see if you catch them but if you decide to take off without adequate visibility or without the required T/o ALT per the company FOPM due to wind, weather or any other reason your toast!. Assuming you pass the ground school and sim (We had 3 out of 7 not make it this far), You will get 32 hours of IOE. That sounds sufficent right? I don't think so. Remeber that you will then be making the go no-go decisions on 10 - 15 minute turns for 16 hours a day. The schedule alone can make a seasoned CA's decisions faulty.

So, Assuming you get through all of that without any problems, the first time you are rushed and take off with the wrong A/C # on the release, the wrong pilots name , illegal weather (3585 will make your head hurt) , missing smoke goggles (yes FO checks but has happened before), forget to sign the release or weight/balance, forget to check the ADL is on board that the mechanic's like to remove from the a/c, or one of 100 more things this company will pick up the phone and call the FAA ( I think its on speed dial). I don't care how small you think the problem is, it will not stay in company. They will get you violated. This is where you have to ask yourself if you are ready to put those cert. on the line for this company. Remember how big those loans for those cert. are before you risk them. A violation will make that major job much harder, even if you have 5000 PIC turbine.:eek:

Thinking about all these things I would say the smart choice is on the FO job and then the quick upgrade when YOU feel comfortable.
All these things aside, I have been with this company for less than a year and I can honestly say that I have good days (Today actually) and bad days. More often than not the bad out number the good. To say a few good things about Mesa, the guys I have had the honor of working with have been top notch for the most part. A few have really saved my backside a few times. It is nice to know that since you cant trust management here that you can trust your fellow workers.

Well , I am not about to correct all those grammatical error's so good luck :D

XtremeF150

That is definately true. My paycheck yesterday was for .01 hours??? That was shocking / insulting They do have a bad habit of making mistakes in their favor on the checks!

XtremeF150

hey xtremef150,
how do you feel about the MPD program?????
Please PM me any/all info you are willing to share with me. It is greatly appreciated, thanks

I personally would stay away from it....Unless you have a lot of extra money to throw around and your getting up there in your years. Even at that I could think of a lot of things I would rather do with that money. It just doesn't leave many options after you get through if you don't get the job with Mesa.

Xtreme F150