9e Airlines President defends regional pay
 

This guy is a joke.
Decide for yourself


Senators Question Regional Pilot Pay


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By Andrew Compart
http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...COFCAPITOL.jpg U.S senators yesterday continued to question the pay and sleeping habits of regional pilots, with the chairman of a Senate aviation safety subcommittee referring to a Washington Post report about local boardinghouses that some pilots use to get rest when making cross-country commutes to work.
The Washington Post wrote about the so-called “crash pads” in a story in its Aug. 4 edition, reporting that pilots making long commutes from the cities where they live to the airports where they are based often bunk with 20 or more other pilots and flight attendants in dorm-like alternatives to expensive hotel rooms.
“Regional airline pilots, whose employers pay much less than major airlines, say crash pads are emblematic of the dysfunction in the nation’s air transportation system. They exist to fill a need for a cheap place to rest,” The Washington Post reported.
At the Aug. 6 hearing before the Senate’s aviation operations, safety and security subcommittee, however, Pinnacle Airlines President and CEO Phil Trenary defended the pay scale for regional pilots, at least at his carrier, as being “in line with industry standards.” Captains at the parent company’s Pinnacle and Colgan Air subsidiaries earn an average of over $65,000 a year — up from about $36,000 12 years ago — while first officers earn over $24,000 plus per diem allowances.
“These average salaries, as well as starting salaries, are consistent with the regional airline sector,” Trenary said in his written testimony. “While starting base salaries for co-pilots may seem low, they must be viewed in the context of many other professions where higher salaries are achieved through progressive levels of responsibility.”
Trenary added that pilot wages are determined by collective bargaining. The company’s Pinnacle subsidiary reached a tentative agreement with the Air Line Pilots Association Aug. 5 that includes pay raises. But the talks took three years, and prior to the deal the union asserted that its pilots were among the lowest paid jet airline pilots in the country.
At the hearing, senators raised questions not only about pay and “crash pads,” but also about the long commutes some pilots make to get to work. They also worried that pay is so low that some pilots take second jobs to supplement their income, which makes them more fatigued.
“Don’t you think, from the evidence that we now see, that something’s wrong here?” asked Sen. Byron Dorgan, (D-N.D.), the subcomittee’s chairman.
Stephen Dickson, senior VP-flight operations for Delta, said he agrees that fatigue is an issue, but added that “whether it is a systemic problem is open to discussion.”

The amount of responsibility is exactly the same from the first day to the day you upgrade.

Philbo is a douchbag, period. If he actually steps out of his mansion in Germantown once in a while, he may realize the world is not flat, that people do have to work for a living.

And then you upgrade, complete OE and then have more responsibility.

When you get to the left seat you'll disagree.

That's why I said it's the same UNTIL you go to the left seat.

He is saying the responsibility as a first officer doesn't change one bit from the day you start until the day you move to captain. Yet our pay increases yearly up to a certain point.
That alone completely makes this so called CEO sound foolish when he says pay increases as resposibility increases.

Yes, responsibility does increase when you move to captain. However, a $50,000 pay difference is kind of dramatic between the FO and captain.

Wonder why we have to pay banking exec billions in bonuses after they do a crappy job and the banks lose money.
If money doesn't have any bearing on Safety or Competance then why do CEO's get paid what they do?
FACT: You get what you pay for!

I hate the spineless braindead ___heads that testify to congress with lies. Money has everything to do with safety and 50 people could be alive today if airlines paid a decent wage so they could hire decent pilots.

I signed for the jet for 4 years before coming to Blue and find FO payscales disgusting. Fact of the matter is that I expected quite a bit of the guy to my right in the way of professionalism and responsibility, far more than the 20-35K he or she was making. I expect more of myself now that I'm "slinging gear" again. Saying "you'll understand when you upgrade" is a cop out.

Did you guys know that at the Majors it's industry standard to pay an FO approximately 65-68 percent of the CA pay at similar longevity? That means at RAH for example a 2nd year 50-seat FO should be making about 41 bucks an hour. Food for thought.

the idea that the captain has more responsibility might be nice in legal terms but in real life i think its crap. If you break a rule and the captain ends up in chief pilots office you can gurantee the FO will be there right next to him. Also unless you lawn dart in on the left side of the airplane both pilots will die at the same time.

Nearly every profession out there has this increasing pay scale. Its even so prevalent, that many companies will limit employee annual evaluations to some slightly increasing level of merit in order to leave room for more pay advancement in the future (never mind mitigating costs now). If the pay ceiling for position X is $20.00/hr say, and the starting wage is $10.00/hr, no matter how well you do your job, you will not reach $20/hour until the bell curve puts you there. Read: the pay changes, but the job does not.

This is life. The equation goes something like this:
Realities of life + pilots = complaints. <-- I am joking, but there is some truth to this.

No offense to anyone, but this is the way it works. Sure, the starting wage is a bit low, but it is still capitalism at its finest despite the CBA. A CBA is just the hand of capitalism with a thick leather glove over it. Sure, your movement is curtailed a bit, but its still a hand.

Pay may have been a variable in the Colgan crash, but it was not the cause. The cause was an improper stall recognition/recovery. Would a higher paid pilot have not made the mistake? Cannot tell. A better pilot likely wouldn't have made the mistake. But great pilots (and some not so great ones) have been graduating through the ranks of low paying regionals for decades. I guess the modern "career regional pilot" might be changing the landscape a bit, however.

The regional airline captain has the hardest job in the industy.
Flying with new f/o's. Same airspace as the majors, same congested airports, and in high performance jets.
I would love to sit right seat next to a 20 year captain, but only if i could make a decent living and not have to start at the bottom to fly bigger airplanes. The airlines have been getting away with "C" scale wages long enough. It's time we educate congress and show them that low pay will equal a diminished safety standard.

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He doesn't live in Germantown don't accuse me of being his neighbor!!!!!!:D

i love that last part, its like obviously its our fault that our wages are low since we agree to it through collective bargaining. what he never mentions is how long and screwed up this bargaining process is, precisely because of his management and their tactics.

this is not an argument on whether you think we should get paid more or not. he is making statements that are blatant lies. if he thinks he is justified in paying us one of the lowest paycales in the regionals, fine. but then don't go and tell the world that it is industry standard when it simply isnt.

Yeah whos to say the captain even knows his stuff, im an fo and quiz my captains when they got a pc. And to be honest I know the books more then most of my captains, hell the check airman im flying with now says i know more knoweledge based material about the CFM and FOPP then 90% of our captains. Not to mention I have saved my captains ass on things they werent aware of or they accidently missed. Oh and last thing when I had to take the controls FROM MY CAPTAIN because he wasnt following the RA we got on TCAS, and I was fearing for our lives.

DONT TELL ME I DONT HAVE RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!!!!!!!

Um..........Okaaaay!

Mr FO I'm smarter than 90% of the Captains I fly with!!!!

Hahaha just because your a captain you think YOU'RE so smart! Your funny.

But I work at a company where yeah its extremely possible because being a captain is a joke here, and well its been proven.

Did 9e have jets 12 years ago when the wage was $36,000. Was anyone in there standing up for us at the congressional meeting, anyone pointing out student loans and being on the road 4 days a week for this awesome 24,000 a year? We are professionals damn it, don't ever let anyone sell you short of that my friends. I don't care what seat your in the bottom line its the same responsibilities.

I sure hope you "cage the attitude" when you get on the aircraft I am PIC in. It's the attitude like this that cause accidents. Have you ever heard of CRM?

Best of luck my friend!

Whale

What did any of my posts have to do with CRM?

Well thank you for your concern, but im the least cocky person around. Im just stating what ive observed, and what others have observed.

You mean like if the KLM FO had taken the controls from Captain Van Zanten....?:rolleyes:

LOL!~

Where did I say I was "so smart because I'm a Captain"? My FO's are valued crewmembers with me. I expect them to be knowledgable, capable and professional! Do I think I am smarter. No......More experienced? You bet your a$$! My 11 years of experience in many types of aircraft and flying conditions trumps what most every FO brings to the cockpit. Maybe you should think of that the next time you and your attitude climbs into the cockpit with your "stupid" Captains!

Different time and a totally different mind set compared to now ,but then again I wonder .;)


Fred

With that, can it can be concluded that SO IS BEING AN FO where you work?

True, had that been today, it wouldn't even have come down to the FO/FE intervening. Paraphrasing, but the comment of "did he not clear yet, the Pan American?" would have been enough for most, again, most CA's to think about it.

As you said though, again, we wonder. Reference the PVD incident. Not only from the the crew that refused to do anything till UAL was clear, but also the UAL plane.

Just a note:confused:

Not all FO's at the Regionals are 300 hour wonders. FO here with 14 years of experience many many types of aircraft and a lot of Turbine time before even starting at the Regional................still learning........will always be.

We all have different backgrounds and this industry is a complex one.
You never know who you will find with you in the cockpit.

The best Captains are the humble ones that recognize they are still learning (and are interested in learning even from an FO) and will do so as long as they fly.

I have flown with an aviation historical pilot and he was the most humble one I ever known.

They also have to be interested in being role model and mentor for the FO as FOs are Captains in training.

A worthless Captain is one that cannot give or teach anything, thinks he is ready and knows it all or have so bad habits that the FO has to Ignore the way he does things just not to fall into the same pattern.

Bad attitude sticks to both groups.

Captains save FOs mistakes and FOs save Captains mistakes. That why we are two in the cockpit.

One of the best posts I've seen in a long time... well said. Bravo.

Yeah so it seems your "trump" attitude doesnt want any input from the FO, typical.

But by the way, I dont know why you attacked me in the first place while I was defending myself as an FO in response to Phils comment about FO responsibility.

I would think most captains would defend and FO for their second in opinion in the cockpit and I was stating how yes I have helped my Captains probably from getting violated.

Instead of posting on APC write the members of the subcommittee.

http://isakson.senate.gov/contact.cfm
http://thune.senate.gov/public/
http://begich.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=EmailSenator
http://johanns.senate.gov/public/?p=EmailSenatorJohanns

After watching that hearing I was so disgusted, I wrote a 3 page letter telling them all the lies they heard that day.

+1
I've aways thought that 95% of CRM was making up for a bad Captain.

Crm
 

Definition: A first Officer is a mouse in training to become a "RAT"
This is a joke but it does have some truth to it...

So I have an honest question...I keep hearing that increasing pay will increase the quality of pilots. Where are these super-pilots now?

looking for jobs

Why shouldn't Pinnacles president defend the pay?

Didn't their pilot agree with it as well?

In other professions.

Scoop

Yes, back before the turn of the century...