Eas
 

I was bored and started looking for info. on the essential air service program...man does our gov't spend a boat-load on that program. Seems like Great Lakes entire revenue source is from EAS. I feel that our gov't seems to think that airline travel must be available to EVERYONE no matter what. I'm just one person so my voice is only so loud.:confused:

What is your point? Are you for or against EAS contracts?

It has nothing to do with the government thinking everyone should fly. Those routes are supplemented because without that money no airline would fly into those cities. If no airlines goes there people can't travel and things can't get to and from those cities very easily. The biggest problem is getting things to these cities in winter. Have you ever driven in Upper Michigan when its -15 and a blinding snow storm? When I flew the Beech we would take everything from live fish to baby chicks just so they wouldn't die in the long drive in the back of a semi. So this money has nothing to do with wanting people to fly it has to do with keeping communities going and giving them a way to get out!!!! Again have you ever been to some of these cities? There is a reason why you probably haven't. Just take apart EAS......Essential Air Service. It's essential for these communities to have the flights.

The problem is, EAS has been perverted a bit. Western cities, sure. MCN is 1 hour on an interstate from the busiest airport in the world, yet it's EAS. That to me is crazy.

Don't take this personally, but there's so much wrong with your argument, it's no funny!

First and foremost, if people can't afford to pay to fly from a particular city then they shouldn't be flying!!!!

Second, most of the EAS routes aren't in Michigan and don't face blinding snow storms. Why would you want to fly in a blinding snow storm anyway?

Third, I don't know about baby chicks (and why do they have to come from Michigan?), but I have shipped live fish and if you package them right they can survive 72 hours in below zero temperatures. Trucks can make it coast to coast in 72 hours...

Finally, I have been to several EAS cities and most of them are within 2-3 hours driving distance of a major airport and have an interstate within a few miles. Exactly why is it essential that they have air service when it's just as easy to drive?

The only valid argument for EAS to certain communities might be to provide access for military bases and personnel who might not otherwise have air service.

That's a good example of what I was trying to point out. Some cities...sure, they're a long way, 5+, hours from any airport. But if you're only an hour or so some airline service, take a car and drive. Works for me.

Don't forget it's not just the EAS program that our gov't is paying for. When an airport gets airline service, TSA and all the other programs must go to the airport. Now you have a $10 million government run airport so 50 people/wk can save a little bit of drive time.

if it wasnt for EAS I wouldn't have a job

Thank you

I love it when people come out to the airplane in one of these tiny, stupid towns we fly to and they say "Man, this is the smallest airplane I've ever seen" and are all ****ed off about it. Seriously? You live in a town of like 500 people and are upset that we aren't flying something bigger than a 1900 in there even though you're the only passenger getting on? If these people have something so good going in their town that they feel the need to live there, then they can also pay for their own air service. The federal government has no business paying for air service for any towns. Living in a small town in the middle of nowhere might have its perks, but it also has inconveniences, such as a lack of air service. How is it the responsibility of a taxpayer in denver to pay for air service in Wolf Point, Montana? Just another prime example of how out of control the federal government is.

I loved it when people would board our BE-1900 and complain about the size! Good times!

I think it is a good program in some cities, but for some it's a total waste of tax dollars. I'm working at an EAS outstation that has one of the highest subsidies in the system, and we have 3 other airports within 45 minutes that have RJ service to connect with just about every major out there. In my opinion our station should be eliminated, even though it would cost me my job. We've only been averaging around 50 pax per month since the new year.

I just tell them that this is the BIGGEST airplane that i have flown, now shut-up and sit down, we're late!

Don't worry I didn't take anything personal. Here is what I found on the govt. EAS website.

Q. How is it determined which communities are guaranteed EAS and which are not?

A. The Airline Deregulation Act of October 24, 1978, simply said that any community receiving scheduled air service from a certificated carrier on that date (746 in total, with approximately 200 in Alaska) was eligible, and instructed the Civil Aeronautics Board, now the Department of Transportation, to implement procedures to guarantee each community’s EAS. Even the very largest cities, such as New York and Los Angeles are technically EAS communities. However, Congress created the program to ensure only a safety-net level of access to the national transportation system for communities that would otherwise receive no schedules air service, so as a practical matter, New York and Los Angeles would never receive subsidy support.

Over the years the Congress and the Department have worked to streamline the EAS program and increase its efficiency, mostly by eliminating subsidy support for communities that are within a reasonable drive of a major hub airport. Currently, communities are not eligible to received subsidized air service if they are within 70 driving miles of an FAA-designated Large or Medium Hub airport, or if their subsidy per passenger exceeds $200 (annual subsidy level divided by annual passengers generated). Communities more than 210 highway miles from the nearest Medium or Large Hub are exempt from the $200-per-passenger standard.


Hope this helps some.

BTW the baby chicks weren't coming from Michigan but going to. Also to add to my point I live in SW Colorado this past year we couldn't get food in from anywhere for about 3 or 4 days straight following a snow storm. Guess how they finally starting getting food in to supply the stores? I also know EAS aren't only in bad weather areas....I used to fly the routes so I know where they are.

I'm also guessing you've never flown in weather before because your response of "why would you fly in a blinding snow storm," take another guess. We all do it at the airlines from flying into ORD to podunk middle of nowhere down to minimums. Its part of the job and if you've never flown into podunk where the runways aren't always cleared, the ramp is covered in ice and its down to a 1/2 mile or less you don't have any clue what its like. I've had to shut down my engines while coming onto a ramp just to stop from sliding off into a snow bank because the ramp was one be ice rink.

So, if the chicks and food are so desperately needed, why not have a Caravan run in there? The 'Van seems to handle tropical fish, lobsters, crickets, parakeets, and two headed turtles* just fine.

*All animals I have flown summer and winter. The turtles were for a crazy guy that collected two headed turtles.

And FYI, by definition, chicks ARE babies.

And I always thought it was to get my congressman to his hunting lodge faster.

Done all of the above - still can't support subsidizing year round operations for occurrences that arise once or twice a year. Besides, if an area gets hit by crippling snow storms multiple times per year every year, then they should be equipped to handle it!

Also, contrary to EAS guidelines, several of the routes served are subsidized for $2000+ per passenger (KELY, KHVR just to start). Also, recently for KAHN and KMCN one carrier bid on the routes without asking for subsidy, but our government denied that bid and awarded the routes to a carrier requesting several million per year.

Air service is a luxury. It's a luxury that we've gotten very used to but there is nothing essential about having passenger service to any particular community. Anyway, that's as far as I'll rant on this one. Regards!

Have to agree with you...It's really been helpful, and my mom flys on Lakes out of PRC all the time; however, usually it's just her and 1 or sometimes 2 other passengers on the flights. There are usually about triple or quadruple the number of TSA agents than there are passengers. I'm guessing their salary and benefits costs would be in addition to any money paid to the airline for EAS?

Look at it this way....

The government is paying airlines money to fly these routes. The government has and will always **** away a lot of money, it is nice some is getting thrown our way.

If they were not spending it on EAS routes it would be spent on something else, like the mating ritual of the north american moth.

Take the flights and jobs and be happy about it.

I'd personally like to see the NextGen system get fully operational. Cutting some EAS might provide a little money for that.

Actually, PRC is one of our busier destinations. If I'm not mistaken, Horizon flies a Dash in there as well. Seems like we usually have around 15 to 19 people on our weekend flights to/from PRC/ONT. And seriously, you don't even want to get me started on the TSA at PRC. If the pilots are not "monitored" at all times by TSA or our station agents while in the terminal, we have to go back through TSA screening. Seems pretty pointless since when we started our morning, we never went through screening and could have loaded the plane up with all kinds of illegal items. If I get furloughed again, I'm headed for a TSA job. Can't wait to be a mindless drone making over twice what I make now to start.

Funny they do that in PRC. I walked through the detector one morning in JLN when our agents were outside and I was trying to get to the plane. Also, it would not surprise me if they made triple what our pilots make.

The EAS program will cost $123,000,000 for 2009.

School lunch program abuse costs us $120,000,000 annually
Food Stamp overpayments costs us $600,000,000 annually
The Conservation Reserve program pays farmers $2,000,000,000 annually to not farm their lands.

The EAS program is far from being wasteful spending as much as others

It is a huge waste when you have multiple cities in Kansas, for example, that are within 45-60 minutes of each other. Each of these cities will generally board only 4-5 passengers, so why can't we just fly to one, load up all 15 and call it a day.

If I remember correctly, the money for EAS routes comes from taxes&fees on foreign carriers entering the US.

I flew EAS routes throughout the east coast, midwest and Southwest for 4 years for Air Midwest in Beechcraft 1900's.

Many times I thought that it was crazy that government money was spent to supplement service to some of these communities. This came to an end when I actually talked to a number of my passengers on Albuquerque to Silver City, NM flight.

One was an Oncologist based in Albuquerque who flew down on the first flight to Silver City in the morning, was driven to the hospital and had appointments every 30 minutes all day long until the absolute last minute upon which he would jump back onto the last flight that evening back to Albuquerque. Without the EAS flights, these patients (many of whom could not travel to ABQ for visits, etc.) would not have any specialists to consult regarding a life threatening illness.

The second was a orthopedic surgeon who filled the back of the airplane with boxes of artificial hip balls, etc. He would do 2-3 operations during his stay in Silver City and take the last flight back to ABQ.

The more I talked to these people on my flights, the more I found that a lot of these communities quality of life would be drastically altered if EAS was not in place.

It looks like the EAS program is another government boondoggle, but in a lot of cases it is a lifeline to the rest of the world. On the West Coast distances made some communities completely inaccessible. On the east coast (Appalachians, etc.) these communities were so far off the beaten path and in the mountains that automobile travel really wasnt an effective option for medical and essential personnel visiting from larger cities.

At the other extreme....I flew from Kansas City to Topeka, KS (A very short flight) for over a year each day without ever carrying a single passenger...NOT ONE! We were flying just to record the completion and get paid by the government. Flying an empty 1900 each way day after day just reminded me that this was a tremendous waste. (Not a complete waste....the FBO at Topeka had a great free popcorn machine......CREW MEAL!!!!) Topeka had service just for political reasons.. no other reason. It was a short and easy drive to MCI. Truly a waste. It is a good program, but gets abused by some communities who really don't need the service. The program just needs a lot of tweaking.

Today I fly the LUVJet into big airports, but my best times in this business were wrestling the Beech 1900 into a hundred little towns that nobody has ever heard of. Memories!

The program certainly needs some tweaking. It is true that the EAS flights bring revenue into these cities, therefore the city should pay for it... not the federal government. It is like a business transaction- if the profits are more than the costs, then it is worth it. If it is not, then don't pay.

I worked at Great Lakes. When a lot of the passengers were paranoid or watching every move the flight crew did, I would play a joke on them. I would look back and down the isle in cruise, and if a few were looking at us I would continue.... I would start by pulling out a sectional or Low altitude chard and pretend to have an argument with the FO about where our location is. After a couple of minutes of discussion, we would look at each other and laugh. Then we would turn the map right-side up. It was friggin funny as he11.

Moving people around moves money around. Moving money around is good for the economy. Pilots *****ing about EAS is just retarded! The passengers need it and the people that are employed as a result of EAS need it.

There are bigger fish to fry with regards to government waste if that's your concern!