I think the only way they could effectively regulate commuting is if they (Gov or Co.) shut off CASS and/or eliminate the jumpseat. I also think that when the dust settles, it will get swept under the rug and it will be business as usual. Nothing will change.

Check out the September Flying magazine,Page 34.Funny how it's on the same page as "Aftermath".Should Gulfstream be advertising this ?

Here We Go Again
 

Please let us stick to the facts. Never once did the NTSB announce that working for 3M had anything to do with this. ( Does investigated and cleared mean anything). And for the record, you had TWO pilots (1 former GIA/ 1 -1600 hr CFI) that managed to lose control of that aircraft, Back to the issues at hand, that do need to be dealt with so things will get better but nice try at hijacking a thread for your own desires to bash a group of pilots....

I'm a pilot not a legislator. I trust they'd be better at making those types of decisions, but I wouldn't let those clowns fly my plane.

That said, I support full regulation in the form of pay/rest/hotel requirements - OR - Full deregulation in the form of a removal of the RLA which would allow us to effectively protest poor working conditions. Its like a big red cell off your nose, you can go left or right, but going straight is certainly not going to result in a favorable outcome.

The current model however favors only management's interests and is designed to reduce labor costs driving down costs for the consumer. The only way you prevent crew members from sleeping in crew rooms is to provide hotels for them. Raising wages doesn't solve the problem, providing the rooms does a much better job.

In aviation safety should be first, but money first is the status-quo.

Some places you don't have a choice. If you are flying a night trip (starting at an outstation) at UPS, you are required to be there 18 hours prior if you use the company provided ticket or get docked 3 hours of pay.

Accidents will happen again no matter how or what you change. But to blame it on fatigue, I think is wrong. Not being in command of the cockpit, to me, was the reason for the accident, so yes it will happen again. Was the type of stall, if that was the primary cause, easy to recognize? Probably not at night on instruments. Everybody has talked about crap when they legally weren't supposed to, but if it is managed by the pic it will be ok. But your right it will happen again and lots seem to happen at night, so WE need to pay attention.

Yep, we need to pay attention.


But try that on your sixth drink.... or your twentieth hour awake.

Sure maybe this accident wasn't connected with fatigue (highly unlikely) however you can say that about any accident in the past and really the only accidents you could blame 100% on fatigue would be if both pilots fell asleep and crashed. Realistically though if you are commuting from across the country and sleeping in the crew room, followed by a day full of flying you probably are gonna be pretty tired. I'm definitely not against commuting and have been doing it since I was hired, however it just really scares me to see these pilots that are in no way rested sitting in the crew room on reserve just waiting for that call to fly. And if this is happening at one place it's probably happening at many more. I know this will never happen but the best solution would be if airlines could provide hotels in base to commuters since they obviously don't want to pay pilots enough to afford their own accommodations.

It is, what it is...
 

I agree the regionals suck when it comes to compensation and schedules. They always have, and always will. But does that justify saying "I am gonna endanger a flight because my company doesn't give me what I want." We need better compensation yes. We also need professionals making better choices. Commution across the country for a regional job is like a high school kid driving two hundred miles a day to work at a mall. It makes no sense.

Very good point. Fight for better pay and work rules but also maintain your professionalism...because that is what the job calls for, a professional pilot.