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If YOU were the head of the FAA...
If you had a magic wand and could change the regs, what changes would you make to improve safety? Higher times? More thorough background checks? Apprenticeships/mentor programs? Prohibiting the company from calling during rest? Duty/rest?
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If I had a magic wand I'd wish for 280 million dollars.
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I'd want a royale with cheese for every pilot for all their hard work.
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If I had a magic wand I'd slowly turn a 10-19 seat piston/turboprop market into a long-range 50-100 seat jet market, all the while never changing payrates to match major airline averages that used to fly the same routes/capacity.... oooh wait... that already happened. :cool:
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Well since I'm furloughed and back to turning wrenches, I'd make an emergency airworthiness directive mandating the removal of all flat-head fasteners on aircraft.
Oh, and if I felt like going back to work, I'd lower the mandatory retirement age to .. I donno... 47. |
Max 8 hours day flight time for a 2 man crew. 10 for 3 man crew.
12 hour duty day max unless waivered for specific ultra long haul flights RAPs for international reserve crews No calling crews during any crew rest 10 hours minimum behind the hotel door 6-8 hour max flight time depending on number of legs in the day. More stringent duty time and flight hour rules for nights Duty day starts at sign-in time for a new trip or leaving the hotel during layover. And that's just for starters. |
I really like the ATP/ 1500hr requirement to be an FO at ANY 121 carrier.
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(Post 681107)
If you had a magic wand and could change the regs, what changes would you make to improve safety?
All the other problems would go away at that point. Nu |
Minimum wage
Implement a mandate for a minimum livable wage in a large metropolitan city, equivalent (rent x 3 = base salary). In the interest of public safety!
Since supply and demand method dictates some positions pay well, and most positions (especially at the regional carriers) pay pathetically low, then the FAA must intervene and set a minimum. Again in the interest of the safety of the flying public! Besides...what FAA mandate hasn't been met with protest by the airline bean counters?, every requirement in the ops manual already costs the "operator" lots of money This, I think, will somewhat help the situation. It's not the only solution, but it's a start to a long and over due problem of an industry that has failed collectively. That's my bit, thanks. |
Requirements for the mile high club would be: 5280 ft. AGL.
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(Post 681107)
If you had a magic wand and could change the regs, what changes would you make to improve safety? Higher times? More thorough background checks? Apprenticeships/mentor programs? Prohibiting the company from calling during rest? Duty/rest?
Change training. Make it so that Flight Safety is the only place that can do airline training. Make the mins to 4000 hours just to be sure. You need to take an IQ test, min score of superior intelligence. I also like the free quarter pounder with cheese days idea. |
Originally Posted by vicman
(Post 681188)
Implement a mandate for a minimum livable wage in a large metropolitan city, equivalent (rent x 3 = base salary). In the interest of public safety!
Since supply and demand method dictates some positions pay well, and most positions (especially at the regional carriers) pay pathetically low, then the FAA must intervene and set a minimum. Again in the interest of the safety of the flying public! Besides...what FAA mandate hasn't been met with protest by the airline bean counters?, every requirement in the ops manual already costs the "operator" lots of money This, I think, will somewhat help the situation. It's not the only solution, but it's a start to a long and over due problem of an industry that has failed collectively. That's my bit, thanks. |
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I would require the airlines pay thier pilots based on their DUTY time not their flight time.
I would forbid a pilot from flying while ill and mandate that the carrier compensate the pilot while he or she is getting treatment and recuperating. A pilot shall have 20 "personal days", no questions asked, but no sick time, thus removing the possibility of an airline requiring a doctors note. If you're not up for the flight, your not up for the flight. Period. A pilot shall have a minimum of 20 days vacation. I would also set a "pilot minimum wage" for all regional 121 carriers. SIC's to start at 40K per year. Captains will be paid a minimum of 80K. The pay would be adjusted annually for inflation and cost of living to encourage pilots to live in or near their base. All national carriers shall pay their SIC's a minimum of 70K, and their Captains a minimum of 120K To ensure proper and decent management of an airline, management personnel will be individually certified and licensed by the FAA. Should any corporate malfeasance or gross negligence occur the FAA may revoke the managers certificate and bar them from working at an airline or aviation related field. This would prevent Gordon Gekko's from hopping from one airline to the next ruining lives for their own gain. I would start the 12 hour "rest period" from when the pilots check into the hotel. Additionally, while I wouldn't require an ATP, I would create a new license called the "SIC ATP". The certificate would be required to act as an SIC on any 121 air carrier The mins would be 1500 total time, 100 night, 100 instrument, 200 cross country, and a minimum of 100 hours of multi or 50 hours of simulated turbine time or 75 hours of a combination of both. The pilot must pass the ATP written with an 80% or higher. The pilot would also be required to hold an active commercial pilot's certificate for 3 years before applying for the certificate. Afterwards, the pilot MUST obtain their PIC ATP within 5 years of their date of hire. An airline may furlough a pilot, however, they must provide health coverage, and pay them a minimum of 1/2 of last years pay. I would eliminate the use of the seniority system in it's entirety Oh and free ice cream.:p |
I'd throw next gen out the window, a nice system, but subject to far too many errors, and it has NO backup.... which means that at some point somebody will notice that and THEN decide we ALSO need to keep our nationwide traditional radar systems up and running as backups, and then we LOSE all the long term cost savings this idea brings... it also is a bad idea in terms of national security... NextGen would not show a cessna slipping across the border at 2000 feet from Canada with no GPS driven ADS-B system, and there would be no primary target only displayed.
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Originally Posted by AirWillie
(Post 681203)
Change training. Make it so that Flight Safety is the only place that can do airline training.
Make the mins to 4000 hours just to be sure. You need to take an IQ test, min score of superior intelligence. I also like the free quarter pounder with cheese days idea. ONE LEVEL of SAFETY, ONE LEVEL of TRAINING, ONE LEVEL of STANDARDS.... |
I would love to have the ideas posted above worked into our schedules. But be careful of what you wish for. The government getting involved will probably give us more rest; but will result in less money for us. Think about your schedules...how can the company build schedules that allow 6 hours block in a 12 hour duty day for 4 days in a row?? You might be able to build a couple schedules, but it can't be done for an entire pilot group. Say good bye to working 14 days and getting 90+ hours for the month!
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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 681286)
ONE LEVEL of SAFETY, ONE LEVEL of TRAINING, ONE LEVEL of STANDARDS.... Ok if these are your goal, you need to add ONE LEVEL of PAY, since your obviously talking about the same standards between Regionals and Majors, unfortunatly the Legacy's and the Super Senior pilots will never allow it..... |
1. Duty day would not exceed 12 hrs
2. Rest would start at the hotel, not the van. 3. There would be no reduced rest. 4. Stand ups would be illegal. 5. Atp required for all pilots to fly 121 6. All training would be AQP unless it is the pilots initial check ride or type rating. 7. All 121 pilots will be typed on the aircraft they fly. |
Originally Posted by NoJoy
(Post 681351)
4. Stand ups would be illegal. . |
Originally Posted by NoJoy
(Post 681351)
4. Stand ups would be illegal. 5 they would have to double there pilot group? |
Originally Posted by AirWillie
(Post 681354)
Punishable by what?
If you really want to improve safety, ground all the aircraft and start working upwards from there. Not good for pilot career expectations, but at least they'll live long enough to complain about it. |
Originally Posted by hslightnin
(Post 681397)
arent the cargo ops basically doing stand ups?
they would have to double there pilot group? OK let me explain. CDOs (continueous duty overnights) would no longer happen. ie duty on at 1900 fly 1 to 4 legs, go to a hotel, get 3-4 hours sleep, then fly back to your base and be done for the day. Then start again at 1900. The fatege (spelling) really sets in on the flight back with 3-4 hrs sleep. It gets worse if you throw in a time zone change. Do this 4 days in a row and the crews are zombies by the last day. I am sure that cargo guys get more rest on stand ups. |
Originally Posted by NoJoy
(Post 681351)
1. Duty day would not exceed 12 hrs
2. Rest would start at the hotel, not the van. 3. There would be no reduced rest. 4. Stand ups would be illegal. 5. Atp required for all pilots to fly 121 6. All training would be AQP unless it is the pilots initial check ride or type rating. 7. All 121 pilots will be typed on the aircraft they fly. Excellent points. Those are the about the most realistic things that can happen and they would go a long way to addressing added safety in our profession. My one question. I don't disagree with point #1, but would it not be difficult, in a logistic sense, especially in keeping with schedules for the next day...assuming the same crew is scheduled to fly the AM departure? As for payscales, a magic wand may be what is needed....different discussion |
As a head of the FAA, you can't legislate a ban on seniority. However, I'm the first one to say that the seniority system HAS TO GO if this industry is going to even have a fighting chance at restoring itself.
I'd also require ATP, but unlike you, I'd do away with SIC type ratings and require ALL pilots to be PIC type rated on aircraft they fly regardless of the seat position. Think quality... Good stuff...
Originally Posted by Stratapilot
(Post 681277)
I would require the airlines pay thier pilots based on their DUTY time not their flight time.
I would forbid a pilot from flying while ill and mandate that the carrier compensate the pilot while he or she is getting treatment and recuperating. A pilot shall have 20 "personal days", no questions asked, but no sick time, thus removing the possibility of an airline requiring a doctors note. If you're not up for the flight, your not up for the flight. Period. A pilot shall have a minimum of 20 days vacation. I would also set a "pilot minimum wage" for all regional 121 carriers. SIC's to start at 40K per year. Captains will be paid a minimum of 80K. The pay would be adjusted annually for inflation and cost of living to encourage pilots to live in or near their base. All national carriers shall pay their SIC's a minimum of 70K, and their Captains a minimum of 120K To ensure proper and decent management of an airline, management personnel will be individually certified and licensed by the FAA. Should any corporate malfeasance or gross negligence occur the FAA may revoke the managers certificate and bar them from working at an airline or aviation related field. This would prevent Gordon Gekko's from hopping from one airline to the next ruining lives for their own gain. I would start the 12 hour "rest period" from when the pilots check into the hotel. Additionally, while I wouldn't require an ATP, I would create a new license called the "SIC ATP". The certificate would be required to act as an SIC on any 121 air carrier The mins would be 1500 total time, 100 night, 100 instrument, 200 cross country, and a minimum of 100 hours of multi or 50 hours of simulated turbine time or 75 hours of a combination of both. The pilot must pass the ATP written with an 80% or higher. The pilot would also be required to hold an active commercial pilot's certificate for 3 years before applying for the certificate. Afterwards, the pilot MUST obtain their PIC ATP within 5 years of their date of hire. An airline may furlough a pilot, however, they must provide health coverage, and pay them a minimum of 1/2 of last years pay. I would eliminate the use of the seniority system in it's entirety Oh and free ice cream.:p |
Originally Posted by Jayhawk 023
(Post 681651)
Excellent points.
Those are the about the most realistic things that can happen and they would go a long way to addressing added safety in our profession. My one question. I don't disagree with point #1, but would it not be difficult, in a logistic sense, especially in keeping with schedules for the next day...assuming the same crew is scheduled to fly the AM departure? As for payscales, a magic wand may be what is needed....different discussion OK good pt. I will add that a crew on a given trip that starts with A.M. departers will keep them until the end of the trip. If the crew starts with P.M. departures-same thing. Mixing and matching adds to fatigue. Maybe a little un-realistic, but if crews keep the same hrs throughout the trip, it benifits greatly. |
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
(Post 681670)
As a head of the FAA, you can't legislate a ban on seniority. However, I'm the first one to say that the seniority system HAS TO GO if this industry is going to even have a fighting chance at restoring itself.
I'd also require ATP, but unlike you, I'd do away with SIC type ratings and require ALL pilots to be PIC type rated on aircraft they fly regardless of the seat position. Think quality... Good stuff... I wouldn't be against requiring the pilots to be PIC typed either. I've done the right seat program over at prestosim here in dallas and I'll be the first to say its baloney with respect to the training required to handle something hurtling through the skies at 400 KTAS. Again the "ATP SIC" would require almost the same amount of hours as an ATP with one exception, the cross country hours lowered to 200 hours. 500 hours of cross country time is REALLY had to come by if your a flight instructor. I figured that for me to come up with 500 hours of cross country time, assuming 5 hours of cross country training per student, I would need to long almost 4000 hours in the process. Some of us really enjoy flight instructing, however would be uncomfortable with the idea of freight hauling, which would be the only reasonable way to gain those hours. I'm all for maintaining quality, but its important to grant reasonable accessibility to those that would like to pursue a career. |
Originally Posted by Stratapilot
(Post 681740)
I wouldn't be against requiring the pilots to be PIC typed either. I've done the right seat program over at prestosim here in dallas and I'll be the first to say its baloney with respect to the training required to handle something hurtling through the skies at 400 KTAS.
Again the "ATP SIC" would require almost the same amount of hours as an ATP with one exception, the cross country hours lowered to 200 hours. 500 hours of cross country time is REALLY had to come by if your a flight instructor. I figured that for me to come up with 500 hours of cross country time, assuming 5 hours of cross country training per student, I would need to long almost 4000 hours in the process. Some of us really enjoy flight instructing, however would be uncomfortable with the idea of freight hauling, which would be the only reasonable way to gain those hours. I'm all for maintaining quality, but its important to grant reasonable accessibility to those that would like to pursue a career. |
Originally Posted by FlyASA
(Post 681743)
Isn't it 500 hours airport to airport, not 500 hours cross country?
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Originally Posted by STINKY
(Post 681752)
you my friend are correct
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Originally Posted by STINKY
(Post 681752)
you my friend are correct
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Originally Posted by FlyASA
(Post 681743)
Isn't it 500 hours airport to airport, not 500 hours cross country?
§ 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating. Link to an amendment published at 74 FR 42561, Aug. 21, 2009. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least: (1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time. (2) 100 hours of night flight time. (3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions, subject to the following: |
Originally Posted by Stratapilot
(Post 681763)
§ 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating.
Link to an amendment published at 74 FR 42561, Aug. 21, 2009. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least: (1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time. (2) 100 hours of night flight time. (3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions, subject to the following: Before this thread heads down a path on defining cross-country time, there are multiple threads on APC regarding the definition of cross-country and what is required to meet the requirement. USMCFLYR |
Originally Posted by NoJoy
(Post 681686)
OK good pt. I will add that a crew on a given trip that starts with A.M. departers will keep them until the end of the trip. If the crew starts with P.M. departures-same thing. Mixing and matching adds to fatigue. Maybe a little un-realistic, but if crews keep the same hrs throughout the trip, it benifits greatly.
You know what---that's an excellent point too. Not unrealistic at all. This very idea would go a long way towards combating overall fatigue and exhaustion, which of course directly affects our QOL in and outside of work. At my company, those type of trip schedules are offered in the monthly bids. Unfortunately there are not always enough as some of us would like. At least not enough to have on a consistent basis. I have brought the issue up to certain folks with an input into scheduling. The usual response is "you're not a commuter--so you don't understand". They're correct, I am not a commuter. I am, however, wiped-out and exhausted when I have to 'switch-gears' week in and week out. Our human bodies function best on a long-term, stable sleep schedule. I have had periods of time, usually no more than 4-5 weeks, in which all my trips were early AM, which matches our family's schedule at home. There was a noticeable improvement in all areas of my work and personal life. I cannot understand why this issue is not addressed more. Legislative language isn't even needed. I have to assume that if the will to do so existed, each companies' scheduling dept could make a difference in this one area alone. Again--great point. |
Were I to be the FAA head, I would work to have a regulation that requires that every crew member, pilot and FA, have to demonstrate the ability to open AND EXIT THROUGH, the smallest emerg exit of the smallest aircraft operated by their airline.
I'm tired of too fat pilots and too old and/or fat FAs that couldn't evacuate an aircraft to save their life...OR MINE. T |
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
(Post 681212)
Ugh ... you know there are plenty of people who live in these areas who make less than regional pilots. If you require high standards of living, then please, do not take these jobs. If people actually did this, they would be required to pay people what they should.
Yes, I do know that for a fact that people make less than regional pilots. I wrote my response with the colgan F/O in mind. She did have to work a second job at a cafe, and was forced to commute from SEA to her domicile in New York Area. (large metropolitan cities usually go junior -just my observation) I agree with you 100% that people should evaluate their current status and be smart about taking such a job. Your comment does not apply to me. As (for now) I am content living a modest lifestyle. Back to the topic, it's also evident that pilots have and will continue to pursue low paying flying jobs "in the mean time". I also thought that a pay mandate would help with the retention of furloughed skilled/experienced pilots. I've met many furloughed or former pilots who work in other professions now (mostly self-employed entrepreneurs or police officers). I have tremendous respect for their decision to pursue other careers despite their passion for flying. I admire their integrity. I'm fortunate in the sense that if I ever get furloughed, I can go back on orders, look for an AGR slot somewhere, chance a "good" corporate flying gig, or fall back into law enforcement. So, people actually do, and do not take these jobs. In the end, experience pilots leave, and the inexperienced fill the seat. It's always been the case at low paying, experience building jobs. It's good to have a balance of experience in the flight deck. It's alarming, that with the rapid expansion of main line branded regional flying, that we have an fatal accident that resulted from the blind leading the blind scenario. If the troubled system is unable to be resolved by protest, preaching ideals, or new rules that skate around a critical issue, then what is truly being accomplished? could the BUF accident have been averted if a furloughed main line / experienced regional, or recently separated military pilot have been occupying either seat. The answer I'd like to think is yes! However, it's probable that we won't see them there if they net 1500 a month! Even priceline rate can't get you a hotel for less than a hundred/night in the apple. Take care |
10 hours scheduled duty per day, 12 hours max actual duty per day.
12 hours scheduled rest per night, reducible ten 10 hours at hotel. A mininum of 13 days off per month for everybody. Positive space commuting. At least 4 weeks vacation per year (non-cancilble). No carpet dances for calling in sick or fatigued. $3000 per month minimum wage. ATP needed to be hired for part 121. |
ATP isn't the answer!
Having an ATP isn't the answer, nor is more hours. Having over 10,000.00 hours didn't save anyone on the Cali Accident. Better decision making process is the answer, and being a bad decision maker is part of it.
Bad things happen to good people, and SLD and the local environment should have been the discussion. They were below 10,000 and were jibbering like fools. They were less than 3000 ft agl and when they stalled they didn't have the altitude to recover and given the icing condition of the wing, Yeager couldn't have saved them. It was a unprofessional cockpit and poor leadership. Not how many or how few of hours they had flying. Cali and many more accidents prove my point over and over again. I'm sure it is easy for all of us to arm chair the pilots decision, but that is what the accident investigations are all about. The blame game is only going to hurt the pilot pool at large as a whole. Yes more hours would be great, ATP yes, more back ground. But people do make mistakes in training and that is were they need to be made. To punish pilots for making decisions that they learn from while in training is foolish and will only hurt all pilots. :mad:
Originally Posted by OldSF3Dude
(Post 685793)
10 hours scheduled duty per day, 12 hours max actual duty per day.
12 hours scheduled rest per night, reducible ten 10 hours at hotel. A mininum of 13 days off per month for everybody. Positive space commuting. At least 4 weeks vacation per year (non-cancilble). No carpet dances for calling in sick or fatigued. $3000 per month minimum wage. ATP needed to be hired for part 121. |
No amount of hours would have saved them!
Hours never said a person nor did the ATP rating stop someone from crashing a million dollar jet. Cali ring a bell? Value Jet? Over and over again, it is the PIC who is responsible for the flight. Colgan's training department I can't speak for, but for the most part what does any 121 training department train for.... worse case scenario's. They were below 10000ft, jabbering like fools, the icing was accumilating faster than they noticed(SLD) what was forecast....SVR ICING. They were downwind for the ILS below 3,000 (i believe) and slowing. CRM was the culprit, and for that we are going to punish the entire pilot population with something that will amount to nothing for the safety of passengers. Regional pilots take a lot of crap, I being one say the mistakes of a few shouldn't ruin our lives.
Nor is a witch hunt going to make this bad situation any better. Chuch Yeager couldn't have saved the passengers due the possible tail stall the occured at such a low slow stall! :mad::confused:
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 681766)
Mod note:
Before this thread heads down a path on defining cross-country time, there are multiple threads on APC regarding the definition of cross-country and what is required to meet the requirement. USMCFLYR |
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