SkyWest Announces 6-900's
#61
Blah . . blah . . blah . .
Originally Posted by rickair7777
???
(1) No one who has ever met me would ever accuse me of whining I am a doer, not a whiner, but that does NOT mean that I am willing to do it for less than a reasonable wage.
(2) Airline Management (or management in any labor-intensive field) does not set wages based on what they think is "fair"...they set wages on based on whatever they think is the lowest number they can possibly get away with.
They are more than willing and able to pay you twice what you are making now, but why should they if you don't insist on it?
(1) No one who has ever met me would ever accuse me of whining I am a doer, not a whiner, but that does NOT mean that I am willing to do it for less than a reasonable wage.
(2) Airline Management (or management in any labor-intensive field) does not set wages based on what they think is "fair"...they set wages on based on whatever they think is the lowest number they can possibly get away with.
They are more than willing and able to pay you twice what you are making now, but why should they if you don't insist on it?
(1) I'm a "Doer" not a "whiner" but I'm NOT going to do it unless I get paid a reasonable wage . . . (Sounds like whining to me) Don't do it anymore, then. Or better yet, start your own airline and pay yourself $1 million a year to fly.
(2) First, this is a capitalistic society, in balance. If a company cannot secure employees at their current wage rate, then guess what happens? (Since you have a multitude of degrees you should know this . . Economics 101). Wages increase! Oh my gosh! Magic. Wages, it's not the lowest management can possibly get away with, it's the lowest the employees are willing to work for; because if wages get any lower, the employee seeks work elsewhere. Basic Supply / Demand curve.
In addition, thinking that management is more than "Willing" and "Able" to pay you twice, is such a foolhardy statement, and shows your lack of knowledge regarding business operations and financial management. (Can you balance your checkbook?) Business owner's, are not "willing" to pay more, but if the labor market forces them to, then they might have to reconsider.
So as long as the supply of "I'll work for less than a reasonable wage" pilots exists, there will always be companies paying "less than a reasonable wage." So if you feel you are working for "less than a reasonable wage, rickair" do all of us a favor and quit working so the supply drops by one.
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,481
Ellen, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
First you critcise an ASA pilot for wanting to get paid an industry standard wage (or, God forbid, a leading rate) then you tell him to leave the industry.
Is that because you, who obviously don't need money to live on (are you a cash vacuum sponging off some guy?) are content to live at the bottom of the wage scale? Do you think that all those pilots flying for the majors who have struck for fair wages and decent workrules want to see all their sacrifices flush down the toilet because you are content to fly for crap wages? Read "Flying the Line", the history of ALPA and the airline pilot labor movement. Get a clue. The whole idea is to advance wages and workrules, not gut them. Anyone who thinks that airlines won't eventually make money again is living in denial. It was 6 years ago that almost every airline was making record profits. This is a downturn in the business curve and we will eventually recover our concessions.
The ASA pilot explained their goals in negotiations. It seems quite reasonable to me and I have been in this business for over 25 years, on both sides of the table. If you don't try, you will never win. Management will not give you something if you don't ask (sometimes demand!) for it. You may be happy living in Skywest land but there is a big bad world outside your little happy Mormon family out West. Most of us have to deal with that reality. Go back to playing with your Hello Kitty coloring book and ask Daddy for more money when you max out your ATM card again.
First you critcise an ASA pilot for wanting to get paid an industry standard wage (or, God forbid, a leading rate) then you tell him to leave the industry.
Is that because you, who obviously don't need money to live on (are you a cash vacuum sponging off some guy?) are content to live at the bottom of the wage scale? Do you think that all those pilots flying for the majors who have struck for fair wages and decent workrules want to see all their sacrifices flush down the toilet because you are content to fly for crap wages? Read "Flying the Line", the history of ALPA and the airline pilot labor movement. Get a clue. The whole idea is to advance wages and workrules, not gut them. Anyone who thinks that airlines won't eventually make money again is living in denial. It was 6 years ago that almost every airline was making record profits. This is a downturn in the business curve and we will eventually recover our concessions.
The ASA pilot explained their goals in negotiations. It seems quite reasonable to me and I have been in this business for over 25 years, on both sides of the table. If you don't try, you will never win. Management will not give you something if you don't ask (sometimes demand!) for it. You may be happy living in Skywest land but there is a big bad world outside your little happy Mormon family out West. Most of us have to deal with that reality. Go back to playing with your Hello Kitty coloring book and ask Daddy for more money when you max out your ATM card again.
#63
Originally Posted by cactusmike
Most of us have to deal with reality. Go back to playing with your Hello Kitty coloring book and ask Daddy for more money when you max out your ATM card again.
The definition of reality as it appears in the dictionary: "all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you;" . . . . Your reality sucks, doesn't it, cactusmike??!!!
By the way, it's a color by number "Hello Kitty" coloring book, and FYI, Daddy calls me when he needs money.
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by Ellen
(1) I'm a "Doer" not a "whiner" but I'm NOT going to do it unless I get paid a reasonable wage . . . (Sounds like whining to me) Don't do it anymore, then. Or better yet, start your own airline and pay yourself $1 million a year to fly.
(2) First, this is a capitalistic society, in balance. If a company cannot secure employees at their current wage rate, then guess what happens? (Since you have a multitude of degrees you should know this . . Economics 101). Wages increase! Oh my gosh! Magic. Wages, it's not the lowest management can possibly get away with, it's the lowest the employees are willing to work for; because if wages get any lower, the employee seeks work elsewhere. Basic Supply / Demand curve.
In addition, thinking that management is more than "Willing" and "Able" to pay you twice, is such a foolhardy statement, and shows your lack of knowledge regarding business operations and financial management. (Can you balance your checkbook?) Business owner's, are not "willing" to pay more, but if the labor market forces them to, then they might have to reconsider.
So as long as the supply of "I'll work for less than a reasonable wage" pilots exists, there will always be companies paying "less than a reasonable wage." So if you feel you are working for "less than a reasonable wage, rickair" do all of us a favor and quit working so the supply drops by one.
Ellen, it pains me to respond to your post, because as most people on here have suggested... you just don't get it. But I must.....
your lecture on capitolism is basically valid, the point that you are missing is your "if employers can not get workers at current wage rate" comment.
Don't you see, the process of negotiating a contract and possibly even a strike is how the industry does exactly what your suggesting. We ARE saying that management CAN'T get pilots to work for these wages. Not to put words in your mouth but I'm guessing you'd say,"yes the industry can, look at Go Jets". And what is happening at go jets as we speak? They are negotiating for a better contract.
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background
Posts: 379
Cactusmike is correct. Everyone on this board should read Flying the Line. The career that all the young pilots aspire to was bore on the backs of pilots who fought a long hard battle to make the profession what it is today.
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