Chilly Bear

Just looking for suggestions on learning flows with no mock up?

I normally use 3x5 cards for these type things but wondered if anyone might have a suggestion that would make it easier without something to touch etc.

Also it seems stupid not to learn the Captains flows as well, can't imagine why you wouldn't need to do this. Thoughts?

captain152

Learn the CA flows last, if at all, unless your company requires it.

If you have a poster cutout of the flight deck make it into your own practice sim. Flows aren't so much about pushing buttons as they are muscle memory. If you know where your hand is supposed to go you can figure out the rest.

Good luck and study hard!

feltf4

You plan on being a captain one day? You flying with a sim partner that is also a new hire? You sitting in the same cockpit as the captain? I'd recommend learning them.

But to answer your question. Find a picture online of the cockpit. Might be small but you can make it work. I bet theres a decent one on airliners.net

lakehouse

pen and construction paper, draw it up!

jaded

The systems manual has a plethora of figures with individual panels. If you have the time, a copier and a bunch of paper you can build your own CPT and like rikt said, the rest you can fill with construction paper. I've gone through 3 new hire classes in 3 diff airplanes the last 5 years. 2 of which were FO/FO sim... It would be unwise to learn the CA flows right now, but I would highly suggest that you be familiar with them. During sim training, the instructor will flip most of the switches for you but instead of learning the CA flow, just try to be familiar with where the switches should be for the different phases of flight, and that way you can understand the systems a little better. You have so much to learn in so little time, why waste the brain power... Once you upgrade to CA, if they hadn't already changed the flows, then you might not even have that particular type airplane. ie: Had I learned the CA flows for the Saab at Mesaba, It wouldn't have helped me one bit.

usmc-sgt

I wouldnt spend one minute on captains flows if I was not required to. You will have plenty of time to learn those while you watch them from the right seat for a few thousand hours and then go through your own upgrade training.

I did not learn the CA flows in the plane I fly now because I figured it would have zero practical use. That has turned out to be the case.

rickair7777

This.

If you do need to learn CA flows for sim training, they are generally much more forgiving about the quality of those flows relative to the ones you really need to know. Save them for last and don't spend too much mental energy on them, unless your training dept tells you otherwise.

feltf4

IDK if it has change, but when I went through training at XJT we were told to know captain flows, call outs and checklist responses. It was not very hard by any means. Helped when it came to the sims made them run smooth and efficiently. Helped when it came to the oral.

Sliceback

There's a difference between being aware of the Captain's flows and watching him out of the corner of your eye vs. having to do it yourself.

Your job requires backing the Captain up. That's not the same thing as doing it yourself. Know what you expect to hear. Don't ignore the other guy's flows/call outs but don't go crazy trying to be able to generate it yourself. Figure out that mental sweet spot and you'll do ok.

Even with years, or thousands of hours, on an airplane I couldn't necessarily generate the flow, or verbiage, that FO's do off the top of their head. But after years, or thousands of hours, it was obvious when they'd missed something - "whoops, we missed something."

And the speed is also important. If you're much faster, or slower, than the typical range it can throw the entire cockpit flow off.

One a/c had about 5-6 distinct clicks after engine start that the FO did. One FO did it as a speed test. I told him that it was better for me if he slowed down a bit because I actually got used to the sounds and motion the FO's did which made it easier for me to give the panel a quick check. When he did it so fast I had to stop and look over each switch, in the flow pattern, to verify what got done. "You're not the first Captain to tell me to slow down." There's a balance.

BTpilot

Personally, I went to google and got the BIGGEST photo I could find of the cockpit. Most of the big images you will get are from flight simulator, but they are accurate. I googled a image for the lower pedestal and the overhead panel.

oh and eff captain flows.. You don't need em.