I turn down the offer, it is no worth it
 

Hey guys i think that going to mesa or freedom whrerever they call will be a big mistake.

bacause they want you to flight in NY with the dash 8 and FO pay

mmmmmmmmmmmm :rolleyes: No way..

well I will stay in alaska and building more time here And flying dash 8 here.

Please let make the pilot profesion valuable, don't work for nothing!!!:cool:

AK pilot.

I applaud you for showing a little self respect. We need more out there like you. This should be a proud profession but there are too many people out there that don't see it that way.

Sadly, there are 100 pilots willing to take that right seat for what Mesa pays for every one like you.

Can't understand why though...

Brav989 look up the salary on this site for someone flying right seat in the dash 8 for mesa the equation is simple and i think akpilot made the right choice take mesa being one of the worst paying regionals in the business barely livable flying right seat in the dash and place that salary in one of the most expensive states in america and its a recipe for disaster.

Misunderstood. I meant why the hell would there be 100 pilots willing to a right seat at mesa??? :eek:

I think what blows me away even more is the pay for Captains.

Do you happen to know if Island Air is any good at all?

People are willing to cough up big bucks at Gulfstream, and other places. There are just as many who will fall over each other just to say they're an airline pilot.

Mesa pilots took it on the chin to get rid of the Freedom A list and put everybody on the same payscale. Hopefully they'll fight tooth and nail to get their pay up when it comes time to renew the contract.

Good move, AK
 

Start getting that attitude out to all of the greenhorns and shiny jet kids and start to regain some footing in this industry... Where else can you work, have upwards of 50% of your wages cut, benefits slashed, schedules changed erratically, union animus, 6 month "Bet your job" sessions, FAA peering over your shoulder weekly, ****ed off pax, 16 hour duty days, and still get people lining up at the door to do it??? It sure as hell isn't at a medical school!!!!!!!!!!!!! We were never pushed from behind to take that demented swan dive we are all taking.. We have allowed ourselves to jump.....Maybe AK will spawn a revolution....

sry brav thanks for clarifying

This is one low timer that's preaching the message to the students he has that want to persue a career in aviation. Thankfully, they made a good choice and went to a local flight school for their training to begin with. Most of them are about to enter college and aren't majoring in aviation.

Now if I could only get the CFI's to stop jumping up at the first offer to fly something burning Jet A and wait for something that paid more along the lines of what they deserve.

Times
 

Times are good now for CFI's. In a year or two you might be willing to work for free or pay a huge amount for a job. Some day soon the regional boom will end and the days of easy job hunting will be over. When I got on at Horizon Air I was the next youngest at 28 and had the lowest time of 3800 hours. Most of that was as a 135 multi PIC with some Learjet time. In the early 1990's people had to pay 10 to 20 thousand for a right seat commuter gig. This can't go on forever. Those days will come back and soon.

SkyHigh

Skyhigh,

When that day comes, I'll buy a luscombe and get a real job. There are other options out there than flying for a 121 carrier and I simply refuse to pay a company to work for them. I don't expect to jump ship from my flight school as soon as I hit 1000total and 100 multi. I'm waiting until at least 135 minimums simply to have more options available.

You paint a lot of gloom and doom, but there isn't a profession out there that you couldn't rip apart in the same fashion that you do of aviation. I know lots of people that are making good money and have all the nice things that money buys but they are miserable every day that they go to work. I don't want that, and if this industry ends up doing to me what it did to you I'll be long gone before I become as cynical.

Careers
 

Well good for you. I hope you already have an exit strategy in mind. Once the mortgage and kids are there it is too late. I know plenty of miserable airline pilots who are stuck. A Pilot career is different from most in regards that the skills you develop mostly only have value to the company that you presently fly for. Most other lines of work have transferable skills and experience that grows in value over time.

SKyHigh

Life is full of risks no matter what you do. You can do one of two things. Take the risk, or sit back and be full of regret when years later you miss a chance. I could have easily gone into a trade union's apprenticeship out of highschool and easily been making a decent living as a carpenter or welder right now but choose to be the first in my family to go to college. I had to work my way through a Catholic Highschool because I'd likely be dead had I gone to my public school. Paid my way through college, and have relatively little debt as a result of that. Hard work and struggle is nothing new to me. And to be honest, it has never bothered me.

I knew what I was getting myself into 6 years ago. I had no idea of payscales and to this day don't know if I really want to fly for an airline, but there are lots of other jobs in aviation. Right now I'm enjoying instructing, and it's paying the bills. In that respect I'm very lucky. I'm working a second job, and typing on this fourm at 1am on a Monday morning from my second job at an FBO. I don't have a family, or other obligations right now so why not get myself out of debt, and build a little cushion now so that if the worst happens I'm not out on the street. If all else fails, I'll start building houses. Oh wait, that bubble is about to burst too...

I think this is about the third time we've had this convo skyhigh. :)

Hmmmm....

From the feel of this forum, this dude gets alotta flack....

but ya know what?

The above statement is absolutely true....

my question is, WHY? Why is that?

Why did a Pan Am 747 pilot with 30 years experience go from everything to everything-is-in-question overnight?

Why is there no lateral-move-capability in the airlines?

Because the other airlines have what they need. If you're gonna move you go back to the bottom.

However, had that Pan Am 747 captain been a little more responsible with his expenses this may have never been a question that needed to be asked. Keeping up with the Joneses is dangerous and sadly, the American way.

How long has it been common practice for someone to loose your senority when changing airlines? I am going to guess it's been longer than 20 years.

My question if it sucks so bad (which it does) why hasn't there been anything done about it? Where are the unions? Why didn't SkyHigh do something about this? jk

Do Something??
 

The seniority system is the way they do things in the military and was transferred to the airlines. It was set up as such from day one. The system rewards incompetence and inability. Advancement if awarded in order of hiring regardless of experience or aptitude. I have often believed that if we did away with the seniority system that the airlines would be better for it.

SkyHigh

I think that you are generalizing. I am not so sure that it is a "bad" system. Electricians and plumbers work this way

True. But imagine having Gomer Pyle in the left seat and Chuck Yeager in the right seat. Is there not a problem with that?

I've seen worse: two girls

Nice flame bait! :rolleyes:

Don't know if you never served or maybe you've been out for a while...I've yet to see a seniority system in place in a military flying squadron. What I have seen is something that the seniority system eliminates, ass kissing and politics!

All wrong on the military system brother! You've been watching too many derogatory hollywierd movies! I understand how non-military types can make that mistake though...civilians have the impression that you just "do your time" and promotion happens.

In order to be promoted to each successive rank, a military member must spend a minimum time in his/her current rank in order to gain knowledge, experience, confidence, and credibility. This minimum time can be reduced for star performers, but not waived (except in extreme combat situations). You have to accomplish certain training requirements, anything from correspondence courses, to formal military schools, to bachelors/masters degree depending on the rank. You will be graded agianst your peers in a competetive evaluation process. Also you get screened for criminal/DUI activity, which will disqualify you from promtion in all cases.

Once you have met all of the requirements, then a formal board or point system determines who actually gets promoted. In some cases, some ranks and specialties can have very high advancement opportunities...this is usually in the case of lower enlisted ranks where the opportunity is driven by first-term members leaving the military for good. After that it get's tougher with every rank as more folks stay in and compete. My last promotion had about a 40% selection rate, and it was only that high because I'm getting to the point where folks are starting to retire, which creates some openings.

Also you can't just stay in for twenty...the military uses an "Up or Out" system...if you don't get promoted to a certain rank, they will kick you out prior to twenty years so they don't have to pay the retirement :eek: That prevents the service from being filled with slackers who just want to sit on their ass until they can retire :mad:

That rank has historically been E-6 (sometimes E-5) or O-4 (Major/Lt. Commander).

Bad cockpit pairings
 

You have? Worse than Gomer Pyle in the left seat and Chuck Yeager in the right seat? Ah, I have it! Must have been Hillary Clinton/Eileen Collins...or maybe Jane Fonda/Patty Wagstaff. :p

Exactly rickair7777, thanks for setting that straight!!!

Senority System
 

I have never been in the military but have been told that back in the 40's and 50' during the birth of the airlines they took the military system at the time and adopted it in the airlines. Sounds like the military was smart enough to back away from it.

What motivation do the new hires have to strive much above minimum efforts? It doesnt help them at all for advancement.

Skyhigh