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Wow - Good job Pinnacle Crew and ATC
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Originally Posted by PinnacleFO
(Post 728898)
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Great job in trusting your senses when something "just don't feel right"
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Originally Posted by crazyjaydawg
(Post 728901)
Scary indeed. They seemed to have handled it very well. Where do you suppose the CO came from?
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They should've turned off the cabin heat! Their muffler shroud must be damaged and leaking!
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Originally Posted by crazyjaydawg
(Post 728901)
Scary indeed. They seemed to have handled it very well. Where do you suppose the CO came from?
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Watched it happen as we did box vectors waiting for them to land. Ended up taking a lot of the pax to DTW with us.
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I have always wondered about CO2 in the cabin. Unless something is burning I'm not sure where it would come from in a jet aircraft. Bleed air from the engines is extracted from the compressor. Simple physics shows that a gas will go from a higher pressure to a low pressure so I'm not sure how the combustion could flow back into the compressor on a high bypass turbofan. In no way am I doubting this situation. Clearly they had some type of contamination. Does anyone have an idea as to where this sort of thing could come from if nothing was actually burning?
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
(Post 728930)
I have always wondered about CO2 in the cabin. Unless something is burning I'm not sure where it would come from in a jet aircraft. Bleed air from the engines is extracted from the compressor. Simple physics shows that a gas will go from a higher pressure to a low pressure so I'm not sure how the combustion could flow back into the compressor on a high bypass turbofan. In no way am I doubting this situation. Clearly they had some type of contamination. Does anyone have an idea as to where this sort of thing could come from if nothing was actually burning?
CO (Carbon Monoxide) however shouldn't be there. How it gets there is beyond me. |
Originally Posted by BlueMoon
(Post 728958)
There is plenty of CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) in the cabin...since when you exhale that is what you partially blow out.
CO (Carbon Monoxide) however shouldn't be there. How it gets there is beyond me. |
Is it possible that something smoldering or arcing in the electrical system created the CO? I could imagine something smoldering at a fairly low temperature, possibly not even tripping the circuit breaker or smoking, but still causing enough of a chemical reaction to emit an appreciable amount of CO. Combine that with the human physiology at a cabin altitude of a couple thousand feet and I can see how its possible to end up with some fairly serious impairment.
Anyone know if the level of impairment decreased after donning the O2 masks or were they not on it long enough to have much of an effect? |
As someone else said - great job realizing that something wasn't right and getting the plane safely on the ground.
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
(Post 728930)
I have always wondered about CO2 in the cabin. Unless something is burning I'm not sure where it would come from in a jet aircraft. Bleed air from the engines is extracted from the compressor. Simple physics shows that a gas will go from a higher pressure to a low pressure so I'm not sure how the combustion could flow back into the compressor on a high bypass turbofan. In no way am I doubting this situation. Clearly they had some type of contamination. Does anyone have an idea as to where this sort of thing could come from if nothing was actually burning?
Oil leak in a compressor bearing ahead of the 10th stage might get heated enough by compression to burn and create CO...but you'd think it would also make smoke and bad smells. Another possibility would be an oil leak in the left pack at a point where it could come in contact with hot bleed air. Since it seemed to affect the cockpit only that would mean it would have to come from the left bleed or pack. But again, no smoke? They were on climb out, so engine power (and bleed temps) would be high. I would rule out something in the cargo compartment since it only seemed to affect the cockpit. Actually this is really weird...I can't imagine how there would be any trace of CO left by the time they shut down th engines, opened the doors, unloaded, and got somebody out there with a gas analyzer. The cockpit fans should have flushed it all out. I almost suspect that the CO was from a nearby operating GPU? Maybe they were poisoned by burning oil additives, not CO. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 728980)
Yes, something would have had to burn to produce CO. I can think of a few remote possibilities...
Oil leak in a compressor bearing ahead of the 10th stage might get heated enough by compression to burn and create CO...but you'd think it would also make smoke and bad smells. Another possibility would be an oil leak in the left pack at a point where it could come in contact with hot bleed air. Since it seemed to affect the cockpit only that would mean it would have to come from the left bleed or pack. But again, no smoke? They were on climb out, so engine power (and bleed temps) would be high. I would rule out something in the cargo compartment since it only seemed to affect the cockpit. Actually this is really weird...I can't imagine how there would be any trace of CO left by the time they shut down th engines, opened the doors, unloaded, and got somebody out there with a gas analyzer. The cockpit fans should have flushed it all out. I almost suspect that the CO was from a nearby operating GPU? Maybe they were poisoned by burning oil additives, not CO. The article did mention a small amount of CO, so maybe it was something from the ground after they opened the door. Maybe there was a pressure issue of sorts, but again it seems like the rest of the cabin was unaffected so it's tough to say. This is a really odd situation. Maybe they have an aftermarket heater in the nose and that was leaking CO :D |
Originally Posted by crazyjaydawg
(Post 728992)
Maybe they have an aftermarket heater in the nose and that was leaking CO :D
That could be a source of something burning. Either dust or something gets in there or it overheats and the breaker doesn't trip. I remember being told that they used to have an issue with the intake of the heater getting blocked by the galley restocking form in between turns because fa's would use a clip on an adjacent cabinet and the paper would get flipped up by a breeze and block the heater intake causing it to overheat. Either way I would guess you would have some kind of burning smell in this instance. |
Originally Posted by BlueMoon
(Post 729007)
Now that you mention it, I believe the CRJ's have a galley heater (keeps the FA's somewhat warm during boarding with the door open) that is like a small electric heater and fan. (or it is, I don't know much about it, I just know it is there).
That could be a source of something burning. Either dust or something gets in there or it overheats and the breaker doesn't trip. I remember being told that they used to have an issue with the intake of the heater getting blocked by the galley restocking form in between turns because fa's would use a clip on an adjacent cabinet and the paper would get flipped up by a breeze and block the heater intake causing it to overheat. Either way I would guess you would have some kind of burning smell in this instance. |
Good job crew!
I cannot wait the see what the FAA decides to do about this...probably a new AD that will require the crew to have one pilot on O2 for all flights (in addition to speed limitations for the flaps below 200 kts, flaps 45 diversion fuel, setting 10 degrees of pitch on T/O, etc.) |
would excessive use of Ipods produce CO?
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Originally Posted by andy171773
(Post 728907)
They should've turned off the cabin heat! Their muffler shroud must be damaged and leaking!
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 728969)
Anyone know if the level of impairment decreased after donning the O2 masks or were they not on it long enough to have much of an effect? |
I can just see the senate hearings on approving 10 cent co monitors.
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So anyone know if the plane went on to fly with or without an mx inspection. You would think that it would happen again or mx fixed it and someone from pinnacle can relay what happened.
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Originally Posted by mmaviator
(Post 729401)
So anyone know if the plane went on to fly with or without an mx inspection. You would think that it would happen again or mx fixed it and someone from pinnacle can relay what happened.
Everything at 9E rides on the pilots... most dispatch releases chock full of mistakes, scheduling pushing you to fly illegal... you name it. And if you dont catch their mistakes- you still get burned. That being said, excellent job to the crew! |
Hmmm, methinks the write up went something like this:
CA: Excessive CO in cockpit - CA and FO incapacitated. MX: Cannot duplicate on the ground. Ops check good. Return to service. |
Originally Posted by CRJ1000
(Post 729052)
Good job crew!
I cannot wait the see what the FAA decides to do about this...probably a new AD that will require the crew to have one pilot on O2 for all flights (in addition to speed limitations for the flaps below 200 kts, flaps 45 diversion fuel, setting 10 degrees of pitch on T/O, etc.) They will do nothing of course! Per usual, the NTSB will make a recommendation and the FAA will ignore it! |
Anyone know how this was conveyed to the pilot group by management? Curious how they explained the incident.... probably something cryptic followed by "put on your oxygen masks immediately if anything doesn't seem right."
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Interesting this has happened AGAIN......
This happened to another crew in MEM about 2 months ago. At some point during the event they sent mx control an acars and mx's response was that they must have flown through something.. Simply the best boys and girls, simply the the best..... Where's the media now? How could a "regional" crew know what they were doing? They aren't trained like the majors....... Bravo to the crew.... Be safe and Merry Christmas |
here's part of the coms:
FLG3947 - carbon monoxide in cockpit | LiveATC.net (Need to register to download though) |
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Originally Posted by Poprocket
(Post 729450)
They will do nothing of course! Per usual, the NTSB will make a recommendation and the FAA will ignore it!
150 people need to die in order to get the FAA to take any action what so ever. Sad, isn't it? |
Take this with a grain of salt from FLG3947 - carbon monoxide in cockpit | LiveATC.net
Thank you for posting this. One of the ARFF guys here who met them at the door. Wish we knew more of what happened. Contrary to the article, we don't have a CO detector and thus could not check for that. All I want to say right now. |
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