crj2004me

To all the families and friends involved with this tragic event, my heart and prayers are with you. The irony all began when I started my day. All the usual things a person must do to become one with a contributing society. The drive to work which is a 45 minute drive, sipping coffee, listening to music, and pondering an anniversary.
September 7th 2005, a continuous overnight in LSE there was a problem departing takeoff that morning. We arrived late the night before and recieved a possible 4 hours of sleep. Perhaps the lingo used a "stand up" or "high speed." Arriving at the airport for a 5:30 A.M. departure. On arrival, the airplane was weight critical, due to an alternate required and a heavy passenger load. In addition the aircraft was over fueled.
During the loading process, the gate had to deny boarding to 3 pax, and remove some cargo. After verifying the loading was correct, and completing, first flight checks, we taxied to runway 36, making our own traffic calls as the tower was closed at this time and the field uncontrolled. At the end of the runway, we were overweight for takeoff, and had to burn fuel for 10 minutes to reach takeoff weight. During this time, we were listening in to MSP center, and the aircraft that were deviating along the Eau Claire arrival due to thunderstorms. We discussed the enroute weather, and what our options might be as we burned fuel. Finally, we made legal weight, and requested and received clearance from MSP center, with a close void time.

The problem occurred on takeoff: runway 36 has a displaced threshold, and is reached be crossing runway 3. The taxiway intersects runway 3, with only a lead off line over to runway 36. Both runways share a common departure end, with the threshold for landing 36 displaced approx 800 feet north. Given the angle of the taxiway intersecting the runways, the only runway visible from the taxiway was 3. We were distracted by the enroute weather, High speed sydrome, and a close void time. We pulled onto the first runyway we seen advanced the throttles and departed without incident.

On arrival to MSP we discussed that we should report the errant takeoff via Flight Safety Report. As the runway was to short and not legal for departure. We recieved a 30 day suspension from the company. The FAA also concluded that there was a problem at that end of the intersecting runways in LSE, instructing the airport to upgrade both signage and taxiway markings at that intersection.

The FAA interviewed with us wanting both sides to what had happened. Some common questions included: 1. Was this a High Speed? 2. Did you eat properly? 3. What did you eat? 4. How much sleep? 5 What did you learn? The answers were simple and to the point....yes a high speed....I had eggs, cereal, and juice......4 hours....I learned to never be to sure of your surroundings...Also emphasized that the FAA needs to have a rule in effect for future mishaps..."NO Rolling Takeoffs from an Uncontrolled field!" If that was the case and we followed this simple rule, we would have pulled onto the runway and stopped and did our Survival Check only to realize we were on the wrong heading and runway.

After having had a 3 week suspension I had received a priority letter stating that my position as FO has been terminated due to performance...My past record had one delay, and one missed trip, plus this incident. Although I was a probationary with 11 months and 1 week the company can terminate at their discretion. Perhaps having told the truth and saved this regional carrier money because they wouldn't have to throw me into the BOX for more taxi sim training a termination as a probationary was easier. Although filling out the Flight Safety Report was a professional and the only way to alert others in the near future of a problem that needed to be fixed....Forget NASA reports..."but you still would have your job" You know what I mean....

So the past year I have applied to a few other airlines getting the offer of two interviews. One company after telling the truth threw me into a pool back in march, still no call..hah......Another airline wanted me but I realized now that being a server getting paid a little more is a more comfortable living.

After getting down with work that day I was an emotional wreck...Leaving the club after hearing patrons talk about the accident as I took their orders of food. Driving down Interstate 75 feeling how fortunate things turned out last year, but missing the passion to fly. Pilot's alike, stand strong, be honest as aviation is a privelage.

fatmike69

By doing the right thing, reporting the incident, it ultimately ended up costing a job. While without a doubt we should be held ultimately accountable for our actions, I have a huge problem with this mentality where filling out a safety report results in disciplinary action.

A few months back, a similar situation ocurred. We had just started our day (extremely tired, reduced rest, no chance to eat breakfast....) and began our takeoff roll for our first flight. A few seconds later we got an aural warning for a configuration problem early in the takeoff. The captain, realizing the mistake, fixed the configuration problem during the takeoff run and continued. A while later we discussed what had happened, and his comment was something like this: "I will never abort for any problem that might have been caused by an error on our part. If we do, management will ultimately find out which will result in unpaid time off and disciplinary action, which I cannot afford. The path of least resistance is that of which nobody finds out what happens out here. That is why I don't fill out ANY paperwork when I can avoid it."

Very interesting philosophy, but I can understand his point. However, I also think this creates a cockpit environment where, in the right situation, could prove deadly. Unfortunately, I think this type of situation happens more often than we would like to think..........

LAfrequentflyer

Im interested to see this thread develop. I'm not a pro flyer - interested in being one and grew up with a pilot for a father.

-LAFF

bata

That is why we need ALPA. They should have got you the training and reinstated even if you were on probation. Safety first.

KZ1000Shaft

What POS company was it anyway?

crj2004me

Pinnacle.....out of control....fire, fire, fire, then hire.......Nice budget!

crj2004me

Well ALPA seems to work wonders when your off probationary status. Perhaps I knew that getting my job back was a dead issue. To have a termination on my record was another. I tried every angle to have ALPA represent myself as a professional only to have Resigned with the company. Try interviewing now and explaining that you were a professional and had filled out a Safety Report. Perhaps a little advice: When on probation it's better to be seen and not heard. Well if you can hide from being seen, that's all the more points for you....too!

MikeB525

Whats the point of probation anyway?

crj2004me

So the pos company can terminate at anytime without reason at their discretion. Perhaps your skating on very thin ice during that time.

tomgoodman

They told my S/O class that probation was "in case any of you is a weirdo who slipped through the screen." There WERE some bizarre (unverified) stories about new-hires:

--a guy who refused to do walk-arounds
--one who wouldn't get a telephone
--somebody who insisted on flying in sneakers
--one who dumped fuel and didn't say anything
--one who called in sick, then non-reved somewhere

Most of us didn't believe those stories, and thought the REAL weirdos were in the left seat!