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-   -   When hiring picks up again........ (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/46976-when-hiring-picks-up-again.html)

PinnacleFO 01-03-2010 01:36 PM

When hiring picks up again........
 
Read this and remember it.
Colgan is again tightening fatigue rules : City & Region : The Buffalo News

Its not all about PIC time. Massive turnover is coming in this industy that will allow you to move no matter what regional you go to. Stay safe!

dashtrash300 01-03-2010 02:32 PM

Excellent....I am very happy this article was written. Glad to see pilots standing up for what is going on. Keep it up guys!

TSioux55 01-03-2010 08:19 PM

But what is going to be done about this new BS fatigue policy Colgan has implemented????

The FAA is too beauracratic to give a rip!! If it costs money, we don't care!! Alot of them are just coasting into retirement and looking at the $$$$ that is going to be their pension.

wuflingpu 01-04-2010 05:35 AM

We need to be careful what we wish for. The article was well written and everyone's complaint is very valid. However, the abuse of the no questions asked policy by non-professionals has resulted in an overreaction by the company. I am by no means taking the side of management, but I can see why their approach has changed.
The comments by the readers after the article are interesting also. The public perception of our job is very skewed. They believe that we are calling in fatigued to manipulate our schedules, feeling the sniffles, or just because we don't care about them.
Anyway, I know that my comments will not be appreciated, but I am just saying that if we, as a pilot group, want to stand up against abuse by the company, we need to maintain OUR professionalism.

Clocks 01-04-2010 05:56 AM


Originally Posted by wuflingpu (Post 737506)
We need to be careful what we wish for. The article was well written and everyone's complaint is very valid. However, the abuse of the no questions asked policy by non-professionals has resulted in an overreaction by the company. I am by no means taking the side of management, but I can see why their approach has changed.
The comments by the readers after the article are interesting also. The public perception of our job is very skewed. They believe that we are calling in fatigued to manipulate our schedules, feeling the sniffles, or just because we don't care about them.
Anyway, I know that my comments will not be appreciated, but I am just saying that if we, as a pilot group, want to stand up against abuse by the company, we need to maintain OUR professionalism.

I think a well structured union/mgmt review board could eliminate the worst of the offenders. Opponents will say pilots will still feel pressured to fly fatigued if they will be second-guessed (even by their own union reps), but there should be some pressure to get a good night's sleep and show up to do the job you're being paid to do. The delicate part is finding the sweet spot where abusers are eliminated but people who occasionally find themselves fatigued don't fear harassment for playing it safe.

Poprocket 01-04-2010 05:58 AM


Originally Posted by TSioux55 (Post 737438)
But what is going to be done about this new BS fatigue policy Colgan has implemented????

The FAA is too beauracratic to give a rip!! If it costs money, we don't care!! Alot of them are just coasting into retirement and looking at the $$$$ that is going to be their pension.


No, no. If it costs money, throw a party!! Don't forget! :)

AtlCSIP 01-04-2010 06:51 AM

Agreed WUF. We have to be professional. No well structured union anything is going to fix this. We have to conduct ourselves as Professionals individually if we are to be treated as such collectively. If you aren't fatigued, don't call in as such. If you are, do! Be consistent and nobody will question your decision (eventually).

jeepcrawln 01-04-2010 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by AtlCSIP (Post 737553)
Agreed WUF. We have to be professional. No well structured union anything is going to fix this. We have to conduct ourselves as Professionals individually if we are to be treated as such collectively. If you aren't fatigued, don't call in as such. If you are, do! Be consistent and nobody will question your decision (eventually).

Agreed, if you want to be treated as a professional, act like one. Colgan's new policy shouldn't hurt the pilot who calls in fatigued only when they are, it will only hurt the ones who use it as a crutch. If you feel you are constantly fatigued, not tired, you might want to look at altering your life habbits or look into a new profession since this is how it will be until the day you retire.

rickair7777 01-04-2010 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by jeepcrawln (Post 737562)
Agreed, if you want to be treated as a professional, act like one. Colgan's new policy shouldn't hurt the pilot who calls in fatigued only when they are, it will only hurt the ones who use it as a crutch. If you feel you are constantly fatigued, not tired, you might want to look at altering your life habbits or look into a new profession since this is how it will be until the day you retire.

It isn't too hard for the company to determine abuse...

A pilot who has significantly more fatigue calls than his peers needs to scrutinized. Maybe he needs an attitude adjustment or a lifestyle change...or maybe he's just on reserve and getting abused.

Maybe allow one or two fatigue freebees per year, then treat it as a sick call?

newarkblows 01-04-2010 07:45 AM

What type of professional does Colgan think they are hiring for $23,000 a year in one of the most expensive domiciles in the country?

Their "industry average" pay is a complete and utter disgrace. The guy who testified as such should be educated on how much other pilots get paid or historically how much pilots were compensated to be professionals.

higney85 01-04-2010 08:18 AM

I have been in the room for "fatigue fact finding" meetings and must say that the vast majority of the calls (with subsequent meetings) are a hands down thing- you can look at the schedule and see weather or mx issues (or even just a time clock swap/ 2 long days with little rest/etc) and it's a non-event. I have yet to be in a meeting where I said to myself afterwards "man, that pilot abused the system". That being said there will ALWAYS be a few bad apples- no matter what airline (regional or major). That being said the word "fatigue" is designed as a safety measure. To say you can come in from a couple days off and never be "fatigued" in your career is to say you will never make a mistake. Some just call in sick and we never hear about the issue being "fatigue". I don't have any infants in the house but I could easily see the argument of being home for a couple days taking care of a sick child all through the night, showing up in the morning and by 7pm you are toast but still have a flight to do going to your overnight. It can and does happen. I commuted for a while (hub to hub and not by choice) and had a few times where I had to start the day on a 6am flight for a 1pm show (gotta have 2 flights) and didn't finish til late and was toast by the time I got to the hotel to start a SCHEDULED 8 hour overnight. The idea that a 12 hour overnight would create a "liar" when calling fatigue also has it's issues- a body clock swap where you can't fall asleep just because you are technically in "rest" or a party going on at the hotel could easily cause someone to only have a couple hours of sleep and cannot complete a 12 hour duty day SAFELY. Isn't safety first? I will not tell a pilot what to do, but would ask the question of "would you rather explain being fatigued or fight the company and FAA over a violation, accident, or worse?" The word "professional" involves putting 100% into your job- if you can't do it safely (the most important part)- you need to step aside just as your FAA certificates require. Just as others have pointed out there needs to be a balance and it should be a joint effort on the union and companies behalf in terms of scheduling and policies, but the pilot is ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight and being able to determine if he/she is fatigued. When hiring resumes again it will be competitive to move on and your record, experience, and professionalism will determine your ability to truly be competitive. NOT calling in fatigued when you are fatigue could effect your record, undermines the experience that you SHOULD have as a airline pilot, and puts a black mark on the word "professional". That's just my viewpoint, and now I will step off the soapbox.

colinflyin 01-04-2010 08:24 AM


Originally Posted by newarkblows (Post 737581)
What type of professional does Colgan think they are hiring for $23,000 a year in one of the most expensive domiciles in the country?

Their "industry average" pay is a complete and utter disgrace. The guy who testified as such should be educated on how much other pilots get paid or historically how much pilots were compensated to be professionals.

Agreed. Bingo. Yahtzee. Jackpot.

These company's pay us that little because they can especially right now!!


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