shackone

First of all...good for you. I wish you the best of good fortune.

Sometimes good fortune smiles upon those whom are best prepared.

I'm a sim instructor/check airman on the Embraer 170/190. If you were to enter our program, you might get me as your sim instructor...or you might take your oral or your type rating /PC with me.

I bet you might have some questions or things to talk about. That's why I'm starting this topic...to clear the air a little on what lies ahead for you.

So fire away!!

surreal1221

Shack,

Welcome to the forum!! You're knowledge will certainly come to use to many of us.

First question, in your opinion, what do you feel needs to be worked on by those who have trouble at your ground school?

shackone

Let's begin by describing the 'program'.

Once you have been hired, you start the academic ground school. Upon completion, you go to the sim, and after that to the line where you will complete your final checks.

The Embraer 170/190 is a modern FBW, 'glass' jet with the feel of the 'big iron'. You might think of it as a mini-late model 737 in many respects.

There are many challenges in our program...everything from experience with a two man crew to multiengine aircraft to swept wing jet aircraft to airline operations. Each has its own unique challenges...and these challenges should not be minimized. You will do so at your peril. The EMB-170 is very much the 'big leagues'. I was a line instructor/check airman for a legacy carrier before my retirement at age 60. We teach our program at the legacy carrier level.

Hours do not mean much. Nor does the type of aircraft you may have flown. We have found that attitude and willingness to apply oneself are the keys to success. I can teach you how to fly a 170...I can't teach you how to be a good student. Attitude is 90% of the battle...but you must have the basic skills.

Some have come to our program without these skills. Some have learned quickly and made it through. Others have not. Our program is not pilot training...it is essentially an upgrade program to a new jet. Those that see this as a chance to learn something new are likely to find themselves way behind the power curve...both literally and figuratively.

That's the basics...now for your specifics...!!

surreal1221

I've got a long way to go. In a part 61 program north of Columbia, SC. Will finish up my PPL within the next couple of months, then move onto a part 141 program SW of Atlanta out of KFFC. I've got a while go.

shackone

Yes, you do...a long way to go, let's be certain about that.

But we ALL started out at the newbie level. Nobody in this business woke up on third base and thought they hit a triple. Some did...and they learned very quickly the error of their ways.

If you want it badly enough, it will happen. That's all the encouragement that I will pass along. Not everyone gets to do this...nor should they. The Bill of Rights doesn't apply!!

Your career isn't about 'paying dues'. That's crap. It's about experience and the ability to learn. Some learn faster than others. Some never learn at all. Do not confuse accumulation with experience...that can be fatal.

The golden ring is there for those who can reach for it. Good luck!!

CL65driver

Thank you for the great info, Shack!!

rytheflyguy

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!

What is the most common mistake you see? That is, what causes the most busted checkrides?

shackone

Good question. Fortunately, we have a relatively low bust rate on type rating and PC checks, and our oral failure rate is even lower still. Rather than look at what was done wrong, let's look at the most challenging aspects of the program.

First...who is being challenged? We get a wide range of experience in the folks we work with...some come from previous airline jobs, and some do not. Some have left seat time, some do not. Some have jet time, others do not. A few have FMS , FBW, and 'glass' experience, but most do not.

The first hurdle to cross is our program standardization. We are very standardized, and out client companies insist we be since that is their way of doing things 'on the line'. Not everyone comes from a background of standardization...for some, this is a bitter pill to swallow. Let's just say that we have zero patience for anyone not willing to toe the line on this issue.

Next...previous airline experience. This shows up in a number of ways...experience in a two-man cockpit (some have no previous time in such an environment), an understanding of CRM and how it is employed on a typical 'flight', experience in typical airline operations...scheduled operations, time constraints, flight plan documentation, radio calls and terminology, etc.

Left seat time. Some folks come with previous Captain time, others are training for their first left seat rating (they may or may not have an ATP). Some think that the issue is one of learning how to fly with one's left hand...nothing could be further from the truth. We do train Captains...I'm doing upgrade training next week...it will be a challenge. Too often the folks being trained think all they have to do is fly an ILS from the left side of the cockpit. They don't have the time or experience to appreciate the 'command' aspects of being in that seat...not everyone should be a Captain or can be. We have had folks fail this aspect of the program.

Jet time...particularly swept wing jet time. The 170/190 flys like the 'big iron'...our stick and rudder techniques are identical to those used in any of the larger aircraft. Some folks come to us with minimal experience...meaning single engine prop time. They find the Embraer to be a whole new ball game. To date, we have had three people fail to reach the checkride simply because they could not fly the plane. Probably the area that presents the most problems is engine out flight.

FMS, FBW, autoflight, and 'glass'. This has been probably the major hurdle. Learning the jet in the limited number of training periods (8) is a challenge all by itself. Throw in FMS, FBW, autoflight, and 'glass' and sometimes the problem becomes too much to deal with in the time allotted. FMS is a tough nut to crack for some, and that system is absolutely integral in today's new jets.

That's the 'bad' news! The 'good' news is that most are trainable. We do allot extra training time when needed. Our checking program is very operational...we are well noted for a complete absence of BS in our program. Our job is to get you to IOE, not bust you. If you do your part, we'll do ours and there will likely be a happy ending.

Attitude is everything. Come prepared out of ground academics and come with a willingness to listen and learn and chances are real good for success.

CL65driver

In your opinion, who is more trainable- the new guy with not a lot of hours, or a recent transfer from another regional? There's a lot of trash talk about low timers getting jobs with regionals on this board, and I was curious if they really are as competent as higher time pilots?

By the way, great thread! Probably the most informative one in this section of APC in a very long time!

rytheflyguy

Thank you for such an informative response. It is especially timely for me as I start the 170 sim tomorrow!