What did it take?
 

What did it take for you to get to this job? How long? How much financial cost? How much personal sacrifice?

The reason I want to start this tread is to find out the true cost to get the job. If we find by comparison that it is fairly easy and any one can do it, we may be asking too much for this profession to ever be a profession again.
What I hope we find is that no mater what road we took to get here, it was at high cost, we did do something not everyone can do, and we should not sell ourselves short and continue flying airliners for low wages.

Be honest in you assessment of the path we take. We cannot compare ourselves to other professions such as Doctors, if the path is entirely different.


I began flying at age 15, washing airplanes trading for flight lessons at the local FBO. I slowly got the private done by age 18 and left flying for a while. While working my way thru school, I slowly paid for the Instrument rating. I quit college due to cost and took a job as a mechanic’s apprentice at the local FBO. While spinning wrenches, I bartered my time with aircraft owners doing oil changes and the like to fly their planes for the cost of gas. After a while, I had the hours to get the Commercial rating. I moved some planes around the country for a broker to build a few more hours. I paid in one lump sum for the Multi Commercial it St. Charles Mo. I got a break thru networking flying cargo for a year in 310s and 210s 135 VRF.
I applied to only one airline, Mesa. The training was done in Phoenix and I would not have to pay for a hotel room during ground. I was 25 years old.
All said and done, I have no student loans, I paid less than $15,000 for all of my flight training, but it took a long time.

Started flying at 14 off and on....really started training at 15 to solo on 16th birthday. Private at 17th birthday. Paid for my primary flight training working during high school at a golf course and also at a church as a janitor. Instrument, Multi, Commercial done at ERAU, graduated at 20, got hired at an airline 2 months before graduation and passed sim training just a few days after I turned 21. The deal with my parents was I pay for half of my tuition and they pay for the other half. I asked them to cover the first 2 years and I would take care of the rest. Managed to graduate in the first 2 years with my bachelors and all of my flight training done. I have zero debt and have been furloughed for almost 4 months. And no, my Daddy is not rich and I didn't drive a BMW during college.

Started flying while in college at age 18 (1984). Worked full time job and a part time one to pay for flight training. Left school, moved to LA and started flight instructing. At 1900TT, I got my first FAR 135 cargo job flying single engine planes. Got hired on at Ameriflight after four months. Did a short stint flying air ambulance. Got hired on, as a direct entry captain, at a Eastern Airlines commuter and flew until both went out of business. I was then hired on, again as a captain, at a Northwest Airlink commuter out of Boston. After they shut down, I did a "pay per view" DC-8 training program and was hired by a DC-8 operator out of Kansas City. After they had trouble paying payroll, I applied to and was hired on at my present employer in 1996.

Never wanted to be a pilot growing up. Took my first lesson at 26, after other pursuits failed. Went to an average university flight program. Graduated with an aviation degree. Got hired 3.5 years after I started at the regional I wanted. Nobody helped pay for anything. If I was going to do it quick, I had to get loans. After deferring the loans for 3 years, I started paying on the grand total of $106k. Do I like my job? Sure. Would I choose this path again? NOPE!

One thing that really bothers me is when other pilots say that we shouldn't do this job for the money, but because you love flying. I agree, there is no money in this anymore, but the airlines will surely deplete your love of aviation. I got into this to have a professional career (respect and money). Boy was I wrong.

For many of us that had to worked full time while going to school, while getting our ratings, it seems like it took longer, but in someways it was a lot cheaper.

I remember sitting there studying for my commercial at an FBO a few hundred miles from base, and a couple of kids from a very popular school (spelled with 3 letters ;)) came in. I started talking to them, turns out one of them had been flying less than 4 months, and he already had all his tickets and was building split time in their twins, and the other had never been in an airplane (ever) until 1 month before. Total cost for those guys for just their ratings and time $85K, my total cost without "microwaving" the process was a third of that, including my degree. Am I any better than those guys because it took me a long time to get to where I was going? Absolutely not. Am I better financially? Actually, yes, I was lucky enough to get hired later that year and I have 4 years left of my loans. How much do you think those guys have left?

It's all about perception, I still enjoy the gig, despite the ups and downs, but working for decent company under a good contract has made that possible.

goaround

Took my first lesson when I was 18. While going to college for a degree in ATC I worked at an FBO to pay for my ratings at a Part 61 school with two airplanes. By my junior year I was able to get my CFI. I started teaching and got lucky enough to get a gig flying a Navajo for a guy without his medical. After teaching and Navajo'n for about a year and a half I was able to get hired at a regional and based about 30 minutes from where I lived. Spent a year there, got furloughed and went back to instructing full time. The navajo is parked b/c of the economy. I'm 23 with my ATP and about 2000 hours (400 of which were at the regional). I spent about $25,000 on my ratings.

I used to study for all the writtens while working nights at the FBO. It was actually an airnet pilot that helped me out and signed me off for my Comm. written. During his sit at the FBO he'd do ground with me. Super nice guy.

Got my private in 2000 while on active duty. Maintained/instructed F-15's for 13 years. Paid out of pocket for all ratings and finished Riddle before getting out of the AF. Got hired by EGL.

Growing up becoming a pilot was always my dream. I worked hard in high school and received a full tuition waiver to a state college. Said college happened to have an aviation program and at 21 I graduated with the 4 year degree, 50k in debt, all my ratings, and 800TT. I walked into a 121 job a month after graduating. I'm 24 y.o. now with just under 4000TT and still employed with that company.

Would I do it again? Absolutely not. The day-to-day of the job is mostly enjoyable, but beyond that it leaves you with very little else in life.

Are you actively looking for something else outside aviation?

Well, the same can be said for most careers. I actually have a TON more free time now compared to when I was an engineer. Some of my friends in that industry are working 60+ hrs/wk (and getting paid for 40 hrs).

Yes.

I should elaborate and emphasize that individual experiences will vary. I screwed up in a few ways. Had I looked for a cheaper flight school and been more selective in choosing a place of employment, I may have a little different opinion.

I started training in 1999 when I was 20. (just worked after High school.) Worked all week to fly one hour a week or less. Got my Private after much instructor attrition and miserable winters in 2001. Got a loan for Instrument and Commercial at the place with the professional instructor (but expensive new aircraft). Killed the loan and got commercial by fall 2003 at age 24.

Finally caved in an went to University, Spring 04-spring 08 as a commuting Adult student while still working (and as you can guess being paid ok by now.) Picked up Multi and CFII and started teaching my "Senior" year Fall 07 when the classes started getting sparse. At that point I dropped down to weekend work and Instructed during the week. My Tuition and Books were paid by family but the flying wasn't. Got hired by a bottom feeder with 500 or so hours and 25 multi two months before graduation '08 and went to ground training literally the Monday after my last day of school at 28 years old. (Instructed about 8 months.)

So overall I spent '99 - '08 getting to the point of being barely able to be hired by a crappy regional. So 9 years of dedicated study.

Cost was estimated with school and books and such at ~$200,000 partially thanks to the expensive 61 school with the good instructor, and partially due to the slow progress early on.

Left the job 6 months later, for LOTS of reasons. But mainly after almost 10 years, love simply became comfortable familiarity, it was just a part of my life and something I did well and wasn't hard to do, which wasn't enough to re-dedicate myself to an indeterminate duration in the bottom feeder lifestyle. Luckily the old job was still there for me, but it's not really a career.

In short, I would say this job cost me my soul....

now you work 40hrs and get payed for 20hrs/wk. how is that any better. i'm mean yes 40hrs work is less then 60 hrs work but the pay loss has to be worse, 40hrs to 20.

http://www.funny-potato.com/blog/wp-...08/03/life.jpg

I'm on row 9, just after the sixth comma. :D

Started flying at 18. How I got there/here is a mystery to me. Me lucky charms might've had something to do with it.

Man, I am one lucky son of a gun.

I work for a good contract regional, live in base am pretty much the bottom line holder, am currently 25 and am sitting in the right seat at AWAC, loving life Here is the story.

Started flying and working at the local FBO when I was 16 and in high school. Got the private ticket at 17 by working for 50% and paying for it with savings 50%. At that point my parents helped me out with the Instrument, but I still worked at the flight school. All told I paid 2000 for both the instrument and private. After graduating high school, I went to an instate aviation college, and was pressured into flying at the big named school, and the commercial cost 10k. At the same time, I still worked at the FBO and paid for half, and took out loans for half. The CFI cost me 8k, which I was only able to pay for 3k of it. So I was up to about 10k in loans. I returned to the FBO and worked full time as an instructor and went to school. I left when I was a Junior (dumbest thing I have ever done) and went to California for a good paying CFI gig. Out there, I did the Comm. Multi, CFII and MEI, all on the company dime. I paid off the student loans from both college and flight training, which cost me about 18k. After doing that for 2 years, I was able to come back to the east coast with zero debt. I got hired at AWAC in 2007 and had to live with my parents for the first year, then on second year pay I was able to move into base, and life is great. I met the girl of my dreams; she understand this job can suck, but the flexibility of living in base and being a line holder makes all the difference. I don't make enough for what I do, but I make the most of it as it now.

Overall the job is great for me. I have a great group of friends, a girlfriend whom I love, and a job that I enjoy. Currently I'm going back to school, full time (online) to prepare for the future. Life is good overall.

Oh lets see here,

Started flying at 14 at 06C (6 W of ORD), solo at 16, took a break until 18, started again in HNL, got my CPL in late 2007, flew skydivers for a few months after, went up to AK, flew outta FAI and BET up there; in the Mighty Beech 1900 and the Lead Sled 207 for about a year and half, just getting ready to step back from the flight controls and sit down sideways in a 727 back in HNL.

Got a slight debt load (from non-aviation non-school things), but that's about to be taken care of, and overall enjoying life in the tropics at age 23.

Would I do it again? God yes and then some.

+1 and I'm not a fan of rush hour

I typed out a long story of all the hard work and dedication I had to put in in order to land my dream job. But then I realized that my personal story was not unique nor was it interesting, so I started over. My path to a major was about half luck and half hard work. The few years after I graduated high school were not fun. I flight trained or flight instructed all day and went to college all night. My reward was 6.5 years at a regional and a job at a major starting at age 26. Total time from my first flight to being hired at a major was 9 years 11 months. Not exactly record time. Total cost for my flight training, college and room and board until I was hired at the regional was approx. $70,000.

Personal sacrifice? In order to get to the airlines as quickly as possible I felt like I had to forgo a traditional university experience. I was one of the few fortunate to be hired at a regional around 20 years old (with a college degree). I don't regret the position that choice put me in. 20 at a regional and 26 at a major isn't half bad. The sacrifice I feel like I need to be compensated for is the fact that I am a highly educated, highly trained professional. I have to spend days at a time away from my family, and I have to miss out on the little things in life (holidays, birthdays, etc.) Perfection is demanded and expected while I'm work--if I'm a part of a crew that makes a major mistake, people can die. This job is certainly routine, but every year when I go in the sim, I am reminded of the nuances that make this job a challenge.

When I'm eating my breakfast, sipping on coffee, and enjoying the sunrise at FL350, I feel so fortunate to be paid for what I love. When I'm making an approach and landing at a short field when it's raining sideways and almost perfection is the minimum standard, I feel like we are all SO underpaid.

Took my first flying lesson at age 11, wanted to go to USAFA but decided on Purdue for aviation (out of state) with AFROTC scholarship. Started Purdue at 18 and got my private, at 19 found out I was medically disqualified from Air Force. My 4th semester I did my IRA/COM/CFI/CFII rides in a 6 week period. Instructed two summers in LEX, and was a Chautauqua intern between my junior/senior year. Was selected to fly Purdue's Beechjet fall of my senior year, then did a one-year UPS co-op all of 2005, graduating in December 2005. At that point, I was a CFI-AIM and had roughly 1050tt, 100 multi, and had spent probably 30-35k directly on flying with another good amount on regular college tuition & fees. I had about 50k in student loan debt.

Started at Air Wisconsin the first week of 2006, based at some point in all 3 (at that time) domiciles even as a newly married man, and happily worked there through Nov 2007 when I was hired by my current employer. After 3 months and obtaining my ATP/CE500 type rating, the Chief Pilot quit for NetJets and at age 24 I was promoted by my boss to Chief Pilot "...because I trust you." Given all that responsibility I hired my current colleague, went through a major maintenance event on our old Citation, managed the acquisition of our new CJ2+ along with the divestiture of the old airplane, and have been flying & pushing paper ever since.

Today I'm 26 years old, married with a successful wife, own a nice home on a 15 year note, and will have all but about $5k of my student loan debt paid off before my 27th birthday.

So what did it take for me to get where I am today? A lot of financial burden, even more hard work, a little recognition of that hard work, and more than just a little luck.

Took Private Pilot Ground school through a local community college in high school. Started flying at 18 in college...4 years of college later (2 as a student and 2 as a part time CFI) I had about 800 hours and over 100k in debt. One year after graduation and a year as a full time CFI I had about 1500hrs...went to Mesa...and that's where the real payment happened. Lost about 5 years off my life from frustration and high blood pressure...got out after a year and went to RAH...been there 3 years and overall like it.

At 28, I bought my private while stationed at NAS Key West with the base flying club. Last 15 months or so on active duty, took a full time job and banked every penny I could. After separation, took the money I saved plus the GI bill and had enough to pay rent and flight training up to CFII (had an easy part time job to pay for food and beer). Finished flight training with zero dollars and zero debt.

Since then I instructed a year or so, worked 8 years for two 135 companies that have since both closed up, did the corporate thing for a year, and ended up flying a 121 Saab for "job security".

I'm not sure how I got here, but I did find some security camera footage from when I got my first furlough notice:

YouTube - I got nowhere else to go

And my second:

YouTube - i got nowhere else to go!

And this is Bryan Bedford trying to get me to just go away after locking me out:

YouTube - I got no where else to go

24 and 50K in debt too, 1500tt with half of that 121. I have always wanted to fly for the airlines. I was an average high school student with a dream ha.
I went to a small 141 flight school where I obtained my ratings, worked through college, while flight instructing at a big 141 school and got on with a 121 carrier after obtaining my bachelor's with 700tt.
I now have been furloughed for 8 months and miss flying a ton. I do love the job when I have it and can't imagine doing anything else. I'm hoping to get on with a respectable regional carrier. I think that will make a world of difference.
I totally agree w/ the statement above, day to day is enjoyable but it really does leave you with nothing else in life for sure.

The details of my life are quite inconsequential....Very well, where should I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen-year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims, like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. A sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat*helmets. If I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fifteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum. At the age of eighteen, I went off to evil medical school. From there...I went on to get my private. The rest is history.

AWESOME!!!

took my discovery flight when i was 13 along with a few lessons. hit it hard when i turned 16 didnt get to solo on my 16th birthday but got my private 2 days after i turned 17. Graduated High School a year early, Went off to an aviation college. Got my associates and finished up my ratings, while working at the local FBO and as a agent for the local Continental Connection feeder. Was lucky enough to h ave lots of students and built alot of time really quickly. Finally got my first "real" job flying jets with a charter/managment company. I was 20 years old had about 1100TT/160ME.
So far not including my private had spent about $35k including my associates. Was fortunate enough to have my parents pay for everything as long as I maintained a 3.0. They only covered flying and tuition and "fun money" I had to provide. Worked for about a year, then did a short stint for a regional hated it, and was fortunate enough to find a job flying a Falcon freighter outta my hometown.
Best job Ive ever had by far, alot of people dont like the on demand lifestyle but i dont mind. I live in my hometown fly 40-60-hours a month. Spend maybe 5-7 nights a month away from home, and make pretty decent coin. So thats where I stand 24 years old about 2800TT and enjoying every bit of it. Zero debt about to close on my first house though, so fixing to take on alot of debt lol. I realize I have very blessed and thank God every day for the privelages I have had. I wish everyone else who chooses this career the best of luck as well.

Started flying at an afb aero club my freshman year at a comm. college. Got all the ratings and a B.S. from an extended campus of ERAU on the base, while working two other part-time jobs. Every penny I ever spent on my training - $21,500. Instructed at the AFB for almost two years, and then another two years at a small college out of state. Got hired by my first regional with 2300 TT and about a 100 ME in the first part of 2005. Furloughed from them in 2006. Hired at my current gig in early 2006. Quick upg (lucky that time). Made $77,000 last year without working any overtime. Of course I was on RSV for 5 months - 11 days off per month. I feel very fortunate that I worked as hard as I did from 98-2005. I hope my current company gets better, otherwise I'm out the door when the better companies begin to hire. But then again I'm happy that I'll have descent time to apply to those companies. 5500TT 3000Turb. 1500 TPIC.

So I was looking at ERAU's website...and could not believe it...went I went a few years ago, it was never this bad.

Estimated Cost of Attending Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University

Estimated annual costs + flying = $53,300 a year

At 4 years = $213,200....for a $20,000 a year job? Maybe? Are you kidding me!!!! And I don't know about everyone, but a lot of people spend a lot more than $15,000 a year in flight costs....I am sure $60,000 a year is not unheard off.

Ouch! Another reason for the forthcoming pilot shortage once the dust settles. I foresee ab initio programs in US domestic airlines in another 10 or so years.

My story is a lucky one. I applied for a kind of scholarship to a small flying school in panhandle of Florida. They paid for all the training and even gave me a small stipend with the only requirement being signing a 7-year training contract. For this I was fully flight trained then sent around both the USA and some international destinations to build my flight time. I had a few ground duties to do, but the flying was really great. After about 17 years of this, my flying position was downsized due to a reduction of the competition in 1991 so I started looking for another type of flying job. Most of the airlines were in a recession and furloughing, but the Beagle was hiring 70 a month. I was lucky. Although I had 5000 turbine time, only 9 of it was MEL but they needed pilots so bad they hired me any way. Having a brand new ATP-MEL helped. When the good times hit again, I wasn't "qualified" for any major airline jobs since all my MEL time was SEC except for the two hours of PIC during my ATP-MEL check ride.

By time I upgraded and built up 1000 hours of PIC-MEL, the economy was teetering and a downsizing was beginning to show again when 9/11 happened. I'm not unhappy. There's always coulda, woulda, shoulda thoughts about what I could done different, but overall I've been pretty lucky to have job doing what I love best.

My story is typical to many- College, working at airline and odd jobs, flight instructing, charter, ups and downs at regionals, trying to survive, trying to find different careers and supplemental income, etc.

In many ways I was fortunate, at least as far as what I invested in it all. I paid as I went, had access to some cheap/free aircraft to fly and flight instructed from about 300 hours until I got hired at my first regional with 1300 hours. I probably only spent around $20K for flight hours my whole life (I have 5000 hours now). I did invest a whole lot of time in flying, however, that could have certainly turned a better profit doing something else.

If I can add any words of wisdom to this thread it would be this---

More than any other profession this one depends on simple luck, timing, and events that are totally out of your control. One year you could have 20,000 hours, a Ph.D. in astro physics and have spent years of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars perfecting your craft and not be able to get an airline job. Another year pimple faced kids with 200 hours get jobs no problem. There is no rhyme nor reason. No typical path.

My point is, don't over invest in this job. Don't over invest your money. Don't over invest your life. Don't over invest your "soul". Gamble only what you can afford to lose and hope lady luck is on your side. This career depends more on the stars being aligned than on what you spend!

AND I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT SPEND MORE THAN 20K TO BE A FIRST OFFICER AT A REGIONAL!!!