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Old 07-12-2006, 04:53 PM   #1  
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Default Question about Logging PIC

If you are hired on to fly, lets say a CRJ-200 as a FO. Lets say you also have 1500tt etc and got your ATP. If you go pay and get a type rating in a CRJ-200, can you log PIC on the legs you fly instead of SIC??
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Old 07-12-2006, 05:03 PM   #2  
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I am assuming you are flying Part 121

Short version,

Are you signing for the aircraft? If no, then you cannot log it as PIC.
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Old 07-12-2006, 06:55 PM   #3  
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Nope. Your duty assignment is FO, so SIC. As state above, no sign, no PIC.
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:41 PM   #4  
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Theoretically, if you sit reserve and do part 91 non-revenue repositioning legs (which I do several times a week) you could log PIC if the captain was willing to let you do it (he would have to log SIC, which is legal for him).

We have little to no paperwork for a 91 flight, so there's not much official papertrail, but obviously the company ASSUMES the captain is going to be PIC...

The two big downsides to doing this are:

1) The company would be really ****ed if they found out.
2) It would be a little hard to explain to a prospective employer...they would understand you were legal, but they would also understand that your company would not have approved.
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:38 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Theoretically, if you sit reserve and do part 91 non-revenue repositioning legs (which I do several times a week) you could log PIC if the captain was willing to let you do it (he would have to log SIC, which is legal for him).

We have little to no paperwork for a 91 flight, so there's not much official papertrail, but obviously the company ASSUMES the captain is going to be PIC...

The two big downsides to doing this are:

1) The company would be really ****ed if they found out.
2) It would be a little hard to explain to a prospective employer...they would understand you were legal, but they would also understand that your company would not have approved.

I don't know who you work for, but the 2 regionals I have been employed with operate a reposition flight exactly the same way they do a revenue flight. Same paper work, everything. The only difference is/was the plane is empty.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:06 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
I don't know who you work for, but the 2 regionals I have been employed with operate a reposition flight exactly the same way they do a revenue flight. Same paper work, everything. The only difference is/was the plane is empty.
Mesa. We usually, but not always, get a printout with the airport numbers, but we don't have to do any of the usual paperwork or sign anything. Sometimes at a remote outstation you get the book out and do your own numbers. It's just like taking the 'ol 172 out for a spin...kind of fun actually.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:40 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbinebound
If you are hired on to fly, lets say a CRJ-200 as a FO. Lets say you also have 1500tt etc and got your ATP. If you go pay and get a type rating in a CRJ-200, can you log PIC on the legs you fly instead of SIC??
No you can't. Because you have your ATP, you can no longer use the "sole manipulator" clause of 14 CFR part 61.51(e)(1). The purpose of 61.51(e)(1) is so "...recreational, private, or commercial pilot..." can build PIC time toward advance certificates (namely the ATP). Once you get the ATP, 61.51(e)(1) no longer applies.

Therefore to log PIC time you would have to be designated as PIC as defined in 14 CFR Part 1.1. This is the definition that airlines use in ALL operations (at least mine does, both part 121 with pax and part 91 without) and is the only PIC time they usually will consider.

Last edited by WEACLRS; 07-13-2006 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:48 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Mesa. We usually, but not always, get a printout with the airport numbers, but we don't have to do any of the usual paperwork or sign anything. Sometimes at a remote outstation you get the book out and do your own numbers. It's just like taking the 'ol 172 out for a spin...kind of fun actually.
At Colgan we also treat part 91 flights just like part 121 revenue flights. We receive and sign the same paperwork, complete the same W&B forms, and follow all the same procedures. As stated before, the only difference is the plane's empty.
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:51 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbinebound
If you are hired on to fly, lets say a CRJ-200 as a FO. Lets say you also have 1500tt etc and got your ATP. If you go pay and get a type rating in a CRJ-200, can you log PIC on the legs you fly instead of SIC??
The trick there is not to go and get your ATP but put the type on your Commercial.

Everybody else who is all wrapped up in who is the ACTUAL PIC doesn't know what they're talking about.

The people who have brought up the issue of what future employers might think of the time are in left field UNLESS you mis-represent the time. Every Part 121 application I've ever seen wants to know PIC time as when you signed for the aircraft, but as long as you report that correctly on the application what you put in your logbook is up to you.
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Old 07-16-2006, 06:09 AM   #10  
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I disagree- your logbook times and your applications times should match up, more or less. It is one of the things airlines look at in interviews.....
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