whtever

Just spoke with the VP last week. You all are correct in that there won't be any hiring of street captains during the deliveries of these next 15 Iah CAL Q's. There are plenty of FO's with the time to upgrade. However, if there is a contract in place and Colgan does decided to take delivery of the next 15 Q's, starting April 2011, that may not be the case. To fully staff 30 Q's within the next year and a half would be difficult with the current pilot group. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out

The Juice

We will not need street captains, I repeat we will not need street captains.

Right now upgrades are at 213 or so on the seniority list. These upgrades are for the start of filling up Saab CA slots that are going to be empty when Q transitions begin. The Q FO's on the list do not start in big numbers until 320 (when Colgan began to hire Q pilots for the first 15). That is about 100 FO's between the current upgrade to the first groups of Q FO's (taking in account for the previous street CA's whose seniority is between 213-320.)

What this means is that only a few Q FO's will see an upgrade for the next 15, and if a few do it will be in a Saab, not a Q. There will not be 80 more upgrades for this next 15, no less 107. So if Colgan takes 15 more in April 2011 there will be an entire list of Q FO's more than ready to take the upgrade. They will have been here for over 3 years at this point and meet all the upgrade requirements for the Q400. There will be more Saab CA-Q CA transitions and the gaps will be filled with Q FO's ready to upgrade.

There will be no street captains.

captain152

I think we'll be REALLY LUCKY to have a contract by April of 2011. I know the rumor has it that United will NOT want us to operate the Q400s for them if we don't have a contract. Rumor also has it that Continental COULD want all 45 of the Q400s we are taking over the next 3 years if United declines. I know Continental has dibs for the 15 beginning in August this year, and the 15 in 2013 (is that right?), and I'm fairly certain that they could get the middle 15 as well if United declines. This is ALL pure speculation though with who/when/where/how... I won't even get into the rumors about where United might want us to operate the Q400s...

So ... what you're saying is ... no street captains???? LOL, how exactly do you know what times our FOs have???? I know we have a LOT of guys with the time requirement for the Saab. But the guys on the Q might be a different story unless they transition-upgrade to the Saab. The time requirement is almost 1000hrs more on the Q for upgrade (yes, it can be adjusted I know). That being said ... some of the guys that have the time for the Saab aren't ready either. Just because someone has the time doesn't mean they should automatically get to upgrade. We have some damn good FOs that are ready to go, but some of them might need some more time/experience. NOT degrading anyone specifically, but just saying.

The Juice

That is EXACTLY what it means. If you meet the minimums you should be allowed to go to upgrade, if you bust out you will be sent back to the right seat or let go. You sound like management when you set up all these little hoops to jump through to go to upgrade (upgrade interview, attendance record, maturity.)

A company should cultivate and groom their FO's while they are FO's and correct issues while they are FO's, not let them fly under the radar and then put up BS things like upgrade interviews before they can upgrade.

Also, no offense man but I do not think you are in a position to say that "some FO's just are not ready." You upgraded out of seniority after what 1.5 years in the right seat, you should have been in the last upgrade class based on seniority? The FO's now going to upgrade have twice the time you did in the right seat and are ready to go. Im sorry man but I can not stand Captains who upgrade quicklly and then say that FO's who have more experience than they did in the right seat, (double the experience) may not be ready.

This is like when Chris Wiken gave his Frontline interview and said how horrible it was he upgraded in the 1900 with only 400 hours in type, but he still took the upgrade. Such a hypocrite to say that. It is one thing to decline the upgrade because you do not feel ready, dont take it and then say how inexperienced you were.

bravo echo mike

In regards to the above... Long live the Juice! Well said man. That being said, I have been around the system IAH to EWR, when all is said and done and all the FO's who actually meet the new upgrade requirements are upgraded, I dont see how we can avoid street captains. I talked to a lot of the Q and SAAB guys, a surprising amount dont have the time Colgan now wants. I hope I'm wrong.

whtever

Personal attacks on a Colgan forum? Say it isn't so!

This is the problem with a decision management made, not your fellow pilot. You would have taken the upgrade as anyone would have, and did. Your number still isn't up yet, based on seniority, currently it seems the problem has been solved and you are no better or worse! Three years is a long time in the right seat, the hostility is understandable. I'm not sure I can agree though that an FO, with 2500 hours in the right seat will be a better CA than one with 1500 hours in the right seat. It's the individual, not how many pages they have in their logbook. Sitting comfortably in the same base for three years, with same 15 destinations doesn't account for much more than simply the passage of time. But, that is essentialy what you're saying. And also, no offense man, but I don't think you are in a position to say that FO's "are ready to go," you haven't flown with any of them. I can't stand FO's that didn't upgrade quickly and somehow have a sense of entitlement, and know better than anyone else how to be a good CA, and what's best for the rest of the pilot group

usmc-sgt

Not saying this is you but when you talk about sense of entitlement guess who are the ones who always say that.

The majority of our pilot group was an 8-16 month upgrade and they are always the first ones to bring up sense of entitlement.

Juice, the first dash 8 hires are 298 seniority numbers to 305 or so.

The Juice

I agree 100%. To me it is not a big deal that I have been in the right seat for 3 years. I have an upgrade date so the end is near and 3 years is still a whole heck of a lot less time than other airlines. I have never had a sense of entitlement, but I know the ones who have a huge chip on their shoulder because management "promised" them year upgrades when they were hired. I know the extra time in the right seat will only help me when I upgrade, not hinder.

My issue is this semi-double standard being imposed by many guys who upgraded in a year. I find it hypocritical that someone can say "Yes, I was ready after a year based on my own self evaluation of my skills but others who have been an FO 2 years longer are not ready." Upgrade should be based on seniority and only on seniority. It should not be based on who kisses butt the best, best attendance record, least amount of sick calls, never questions anything and always does what management says. It may sound weird but remember, that is how Colgan used to decide who went to upgrade.

When your number comes from upgrade there should be a strong training program in place which will weed out quickly those who are not ready to upgrade and still have work to be done before they are ready. Send them back to the right seat for a while and after another shot if they still can not do it, they should be let go.

whtever

Because the upgrades slowed, those FOs are more "ready" to upgrade than the guys before them... Interesting. Because AirTran stopped hiring, I am more qualified than the guys in the last class because I missed the hiring boom? Entitlement was brought up for a reason, not just to take a shot a someone. And I'm not saying this is you, but guess who always has a problem when the conversation gets brought up?

captain152

I NEVER SAID they should not be allowed to go. You might want to go back and read my post there brother. I said just because someone has the time doesn't mean they're ready/should be able to upgrade. You're exactly right, the upgrade training will weed out those who are not suited to be PIC. I don't mean any offense to ya bud, I respect you. I fully acknowledge that I upgraded quickly and was EXTREMELY fortunate to go when I did. I never expected to be able to go to class when I did after what happened. I figured without a doubt that by the time I went, the guys senior to me, now with the time requirement, would be the first to go. I'm really glad you've got a class date and I look forward to working with ya as a CA.

Amen to that brotha. I have flown with guys that have a lot more time than I do that can't find their ass with both hands ... and at the same time flown with guys with 1500hrs that are some of the best pilots I've worked with. It's all about the individual. End of story.

I agree with you that upgrade should be based on seniority. But I want you to remember you saying this when you get to the left seat and fly with people who have a vast range of hrs in their logbooks... those with a chip on their shoulder... those that have that sense of entitlement. You'll realize pretty quickly that there are some people that you, as bad as it sounds, just don't want to see upgrade to CA when they keep talking about how they are ready to go.

We definitely need to have a strong upgrade training program that will be able to weed out those that are not ready efficiently, no argument there!! I hope to see you on the line soon with 4 stripes bro!