F-16s buzz ASA?
 

FAA: F-16’s flew so close to commuter plane, alarms went off

Associated Press
Published: April 9, 2010

CINCINNATI (AP) - Authorities say two F-16 jet fighters came so
close to a 70-seat commuter plane over southern Ohio that they
triggered a cockpit alarm, and the Atlantic Southeast Airlines
pilots maneuvered away from them.
ASA says Flight 5202, flying from Cleveland to Atlanta, landed
safely in Georgia on time Thursday. A spokeswoman says the two
pilots had sight of the F-16s and were able to keep on their flight
plan.
Federal Aviation Administration officials say the planes were
operated by the Ohio National Guard. A message was left Friday for
the Columbus-based Guard.
FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro says federal and military
authorities will investigate. He says radar showed the F-16s were
flying at 30,000 feet when they should have been no higher than
29,000 feet.

Information from: The Cincinnati Enquirer, http://www.enquirer.com

Hoser
ROLL TIDE!

Haha! I had just thought of editing my post to put that in there but you beat me to it!

Hoser
ROLL TIDE!

Must have been the ASA crew at the wrong altitude, we know those highly trained military guys could never screw up:)

This is a stupid article written by people who know nothing about the daily "goings on" in the regional world. A day without a TCAS TA or RA is like a day without sunshine. Flying around at 5,000' to podunk aiports with weekend warriors out in droves, just another day at the office.

The title of the thread is misleading in any case.
Makes it sound like whatever took place was intentional.
I highly doubt there was anything intentional about any act - on either part.

Fairly unusual to see tactical aircraft cruising in the FLs in any case since I doubt they are RVSM equipped.
Did this incident happen near any SUAS?

Can any present/past F-16 pilots shine any light on this? Is there any Block that is so equipped?

USMCFLYR

I put in a call to TM, he should have an answer for you after he finishes doing touch and goes in the space shuttle.

OK that was my first and last TM joke - I couldn't help myself.

Pretty sure no blocks are RVSM (I'm in the block 30's and we def aren't) capable. But you can still request and most times get approved up into the RVSM flight levels. But like the previous poster, maybe TM has better intel then I do...

It WAS TM. He was flying both F16's. He has the ability to bend time and space so he can go back and critique his own maneuvers.

Nice avatar. I see your schwartz is as big as mine...:D

The Super Hornets were recently certified I heard, but the Legacies weren't and probably never will be - so I didn't think that any F-16s would be either.
Yes - I knew you could request it, and be granted permission, which is why I said "fairly uncommon". I decided to not bet on it and just flight plan in at FL 270/280. The juice wasn't always worth the squeeze to get into the mid-to high 30s and then possibly be brought right back down again.

This would be interesting to hear more details of the incident.

USMCFLYR

#2? I'd hope they would notice a tanker vs a CRJ. I'd believe if it were some 747 or 340.

yeah, yeah, yeah...and heaven knows the ATC controller couldn't possibly have issued a bad altitude assignment. Lot's of possibilities here, thinking I won't cast any blame until a few more facts come out.

Anyway, here's their flightpath:

ASA5202

They didn't press into Buckeye MOA or anything, so it'll be interesting to hear the final result. Maybe they were near an AR track like Cliffy170 offered up. Pre-AIFF days a CRJ and a KC-135 make a pretty similar radar return. Odds are F-16 pilots were aware of the ASA bubbas and not going to hit them.

In a different life a buddy of mine inadvertantly caused an airliner to have a TCAS RA by having an extremely high rate of climb directly underneath. It was during a big 4vX (that's air-air stuff for the uninitiated). Airliner was right on his assigned altitude over the top of the MOA, and my buddy never went out the top of the MOA.

Scenario #4 The Lawn Dart pilots were Delta pilots flying their monthly hours for the ANG and were talking on 243.0 Guard about the lowly commuter pilots taking their jobs when they spotted the lowly commuter jet and decided to show them how real airline pilots flew.

Used to get TCAS warnings often going into SPS. A T-38, 500 feet below you closing at 300 knots will do that.

Neatest maneuver was getting a vector in the E120 one morning so a pair of F-15's could do an "Eagle Departure," several miles to the South of us. Announced it on the PA so those seated on the right side of the aircraft could watch. We were at 15,000 two came off of Robbins, rolled inverted to shallow their climb as they passed through about 15,500 burners blazing in the twilight sky. Quite a sight :)

even better is "why won't he lower the boom??....uh, disregard...hey 2 you got yardstick to the tanker"

Never happened to me, but heard a story once....

Aww, nuthin wrong with a little intelligent/humorous speculating on our part (just don't tell my old intel officer that). I just think speculating needs to be more creative than a moronic "Hey, I bet those RJ guys bumped off the autopilot with their lunchbox"

or

<<insert cliche here>>

Everyone can make a mistake, even a military pilot.

Have any of you really rejoined with a tanker above FL250? Especially in the U.S.? I'd throw the AAR argument out almost immediately.

When I flew the T-1 we'd get TA's flying over the MOA with a T-38 8000 (we could expand the envelope to +/- 9900) feet below us pulling into a loop, since the closure was so high.

Well looks like the CRJ successfully outmaneuvered the F-16s and lives to see another day...

Those ASA guys should go to Top Gun.

These TCAS RA stories crack me up. As a tanker bubba, I've had plenty of TCAS RAs. Most were bogus, some were real encounters with other airplanes not following the rules.

I'd love to know just how close the fighters got to the PSA jet. When they queried ATC, did they have a TCAS TA or was is a full up RA? As another has said, fighters can close on you so fast, the TCAS system will immediately revert to an RA, although they are no where near you or planning to do so.

I find that individuals who have never flown formation, or been close to another airplane, tend to get overly spooked by the TCAS system. Remember, you have 5 seconds to respond to a TCAS RA and 2.5 seconds for a reversal RA. You need a 0.25G maneuver for the first, 0.35G maneuver for that later. Neither of which, requires you to be aggressive and death is not imminent.

Unless it is an F-16 1000 feet below you climbing at 16000 fpm :D

There is no way there is any truth to this. I am, of course, referring to the part where it said ASA landed on time.

Had that happen a several years ago flying LAX-FAT in an E-120:

Center called up and asked if we'd mind if a couple of F/A-18s came up from Lemoore and made a mock intercept on us. We said "Go for it."

Never saw them on TCAS, never saw them out the window.

Glad they were on our side.

I can't imagine the circumstances where this would be allowed - at least in today's environment, but maybe you never saw them because they were just joshing with you :D

Has there been any other news on this ASA incident?

USMCFLYR

Sweet!

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3...ckinverted.jpg