Colgan seniority resignation?
 

I'm looking for input from any furloughed pilots recently hired at Colgan about if they required you to resign your seniority with your previous company. Thanks in advance.

Something tells me that if you answer "No" to that question on the interview, then your time with them is over. That goes for any company. They did ask the guys I interviewed with if they would resign their seniority. But, from what I have heard.... that is a standard question for any interview, and answering "No" seems to have the same effect with each company.

Bob

Asking if you would resign your number in an interview vs. having you sign a letter in training is two different things. Most furloughed pilots are not concerned about verbal agreement but rather the written.

So the question still stands, who has signed a contract or letter of resignation in regards to senority?

Where have you been the last year? CEO's testifying and lying about the pay and working conditions in front of Congress and they can still get ignorant people, or people that just don't care to come and work for them. Why? I just don't get it.

If you're furloughed from another carrier you should already know better than to go to Colgan.

its a legitimate question and a hard decision that several pilots face each year.... say you have a number at United, American or Netjets, do you give up that number for a job at Colgan or any other regional??? several factors to consider, maybe your un-employment benefits are about to run out or just don't suffice and you can no longer wait for that "good job", you have to think about your currency, how long before you're called back to work, the economy, the your company's health, etc....

Are you in the same situation??? doesn't sound to me like you are, because if you were you wouldn't be talking about CEOs, and congress and all that stuff.. if you are in the same situtation, then I'm sure you understand why the thread starter is asking this question

If you are furloughed and have recall rights, then go get a real job. Your top priority is to take care of your family and yourself. It is pretty hard to do either on 16k a year and being gone 20 days a month.

Honestly, I can't understand for the life of me why guys are so anxious to go back out and get used and abused by every d-bag outfit out there for the sake of flying a stupid airplane. You could make more money waiting tables at "waffle House" than you could at Colgan. I would use this gift of being furloughed as an opportunity to expand your career beyond aviation. You just might find something else out there that you enjoy that pays you what your worth.

There is no financial reason for a furloughed major airline pilot to take a job at colgan...especially if he has to resign a mainline number. Anyone who managed to get a major job could find something, somewhere that pays more than sitting reserve FO in EWR at the bottom of colgan's list.

Hi!

i know a guy going there that will not resign his seniority. He said they told them nothing about it during recruitment session and at interview. If they make him resign it he won't go to Colgan, and will instead go to Republic, which owns his company.

I also now some guys who were turned down by Atlas, who are now interviewing at Colgan.

cliff
GRB

From my understanding, legally, a letter from your new employer saying you resign your seniority number does not hold true in court. Your previous employer is not obligated to follow. At least, this is what a lawyer friend says. Same guy who mentioned if it happens to call him and he'll take it to court.

I know of no fewer than 5 guys who resigned previous numbers when forced to by Mesaba, 2 of those would have now been recalled had those resignations not been honored. I agree that the resignation is under duress but I don't think it matters if it loses you your number. Maybe you could get it back in court, but I don't know of anyone that has, and I know several people that resigned numbers only to get furloughed again. Court sounds good, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If you resign it, don't expect to go back.

There are people who have gotten their numbers back in court, but people usually don't follow through that far. Any major? Sure, but like it or not, suing and dealing with the whole court system just to get your (actual) furlough fodder seniority back at your old regional just isn't practical.

I've heard this statement alot, I did a little searching and I haven't precedent case of that.(Though I agree it's a commonly held belief) Perhaps someone with more legal ability than me can point one out?

a little off topic but does anyone know if training contracts are legally enforceable? I've heard both ways and just wanted to see your input

If you aren't sure you want to work for a company for one year, I suggest you go elsewhere.

Disregard.

thanks for the response. that was exactly what i was looking for

And that is true for ANY company.

But those of us at Colgan who are trying to push for improved work rules, it is especially true. We need people who are willing to fight.

Everything I've read says training contracts aren't enforceable if the training is required for your job description. Aircraft training would fit in that category.

Don't hold that as gospel, I didn't look this up, and don't plan on doing so.

Does Colgan still have a training contract? I thought they did away with it.

i wasnt asking about colgan but just in general.

I'm pretty sure that your statement is accurate. Don't ask me how I know. ;-)

Untrue.

Training contracts are enforceable. However, their success varies with state laws, the required duration of employment, and whether the amount owed is truly a cost-recovery measure.

There are documented cases of pilot training agreements being upheld in court, and payment forced.

PM me if you want a link to some of the cases.

In theory yes. A company actually makes money off of you if you leave early because training costs are figured out into operating expense anyways. The problem is that these contracts are enforceable. So it's very simple, if you are against training contracts then don't go to that company.

I don't know why this needs to be private information, I'm always interested in case law, I'd love to see several examples of enforceable training contracts.
Disclaimer: I've never signed a training contract and if I did would probably only do so at a company I would be willing to stay at, however if there's one thing I've learned.... circumstances are subject to change.

Again, does Colgan still have you sign a training contract as a conditional offer of employment????? Can someone please answer?

I was called for a Colgan interview a few weeks ago and was told that I had to resign my seniority number OR sign a training contract. Also, I'd careful with signing training contracts and thinking you can walk away from them with ease like a lot of guys suggest. I knew a guy where it wound up messing with his credit score. AND make sure it's a training contract and not a "promissory note" with a bank name on it....

Colgan First Year Pay ($21/hour) x 75 hours/month = $1575/month x 12 months = $18900/year divided by 52 weeks/year = $363.46/week divided by 40 hours/week = $9.09/hour! You have a seniority number at another airline. Why would you subject yourself to Colgan when you can go get a job making $9.00 per hour and be home every night? Are you really that desperate to fly a plane? Colgan is a crappy and unsafe company. Don't subject yourself to such a place when you can pay the bills other ways.

okay, lets compare ....

Delta first year pay $54 per hour x 65 hours = $3510 (according to APC). Times 12 months is $42120. Divided by 52 weeks per year is $810 per week. Divided by 40 that is a bit over $20 per hour to fly an average of more than double the pax/miles. $20 buck an hour isnt bad, but really, for what it takes to get hired by Delta, is it that great?

I will agree with Cycle Pilot, in one respect: darn near any other industry will pay you a comparable salary (if not more) and you can be home every night.

No disrespect to Delta. Colgan is far from the Holy Grail, but given the choice of sitting reserve for Delta (and being subject to future furloughs) or being senior CA at Colgan and holding a decent line, I'll take being the big fish in the small pond.

..... But then I dont own a red tie, so I would not get hired anyway.


Readers should note that as a person in his 40s, the odds of me making CA at Delta are near zero.

FlyJSH,

I believe your analysis to be pretty flawed if based solely on money. There is a massive difference in what one has to look forward to at Delta in subsequent years, when compared to Colgan. The relationship of slightly more than double the money is valid for first year only then is substantially blown out of the water.

However, when you introduce other factors such as age, favorable basing, scheduling, etc., I see your point. It may not make sense for senior regional pilots to leave.

The Delta reserve guarantee is 70 hours. Most pilot actually break the guarantee for a variety of reasons including GS's, vacation, assignments, reroute pay, training pay ect.. A better overall number to use first year would be 75 hours a month. It could be a lot more but its not going to be much less. In addition to that a new hire will be getting a additional 12 percent per month in his name in retirement. That goes to 13 percent 1 Jan 2011.

You're really trying to compare Colgan to Delta? I'm surprising myself for even responding to your post, but here goes. I just hit third year pay at Delta and I'm making $97 an hour with about 14-15 days at home and 13% going into my retirement plan without me adding a dime. My second year pay was more than I'd ever make at Colgan. Our guarantee is actually 70 hours per month. Colgan doesn't put anything into your retirement. Who care if you don't make Captain? Even as a senior F.O., your QOL would be far better than being a Q400 Captain at Colgan. Plus, the point I was trying to make is that if you're furloughed and have a seniority number at another airline, what's the point of going to Colgan when you can pay the bills with another job and be at home? That's the point I was trying to make.

Oh, by the way, I don't own a red tie either.

You are absolutely correct about the flaw in my comparison: basing a career move entirely on pay, especially first year, it not smart. Dozens of points should be considered before taking any job.

No, I wasn't comparing Colgan to Delta. I was only saying based on tonnage aka seat/miles the first year pay (that you brought up) is higher, but not multiple times larger.

Would I rather have a Delta number? Absolutely. But unless you and a couple of your coworkers want to carry in my resume, my chances of getting an interview, let alone hired, are zero. So, for the mean time, I will continue to make the best of my situation, and do what I can to push for better pay and work rules.

You asked why someone with a seniority number at another regional would consider working at Colgan. If I were on furlough from Absolutely Awesome Air and did not expect a recall for a couple years, I would be looking for another flying job. If Really Raunchy Regional had a base where I live (so I didn't need to commute, pay for a crash pad, or move), and they were hiring, I would at least take a look at them. Getting back onto a seniority list is a high priority for me. Maybe you think it is foolish, but I would rather mitigate my loss and start over than sit on my hands and hope things would turn around.


Good luck to all