Duty Rest, Whitlow Letter Question.
 

Ok so without a doubt withlow says 2 things. 1. because of lookback rest it is not possible to go over a 16 hour duty day. 2. also because of lookback rest if you are on duty for more than 15 hours you need to be released into comp rest. I have a question about how to find out which teir of rest your are in (NR 1 NR 2 NR 3).

Lets say you were scheduled to fly 7:30 block and you had a long enough overnight that you fell in the NR 1 (NR 9hrs) time frame. Then due to storms etc you were delayed and way over block so you new block time was 8:50 and duty day was 15:10. Withlow says that you need to be released into comp rest right now. The NR 1 comp rest would be 10 hours. Since you flew way overblock do you need to use actual block time to figure our your comp rest due to withlow duty day? If so you would now be in NR 2 and would need 11 hrs of comp rest.

The guidance I have on this is grey at best. One paragraph says that all rest periods will be based on SCHEDULED flight time. So according to that (assuming no changes made in you schedule) you would still be in NR 1. The withlow letter says you must look back 24 hours to see if you have adequate REST. It doesn't really specify if you need to look at actual block time to figure out which teir you are in.

Sorry so long winded and probably confusing..but long story short. You go way over block and duty time of over 15 hours. Does the way over block flying send you up to NR 2?

I can tell you one thing for certain that may be causing the confusion, it's the Whitlow letter, I'm not sure what the Withlow letter says! Aside from that, I just let the schedulers tell me what I am legal to do!

I don't know what's worse in this thread.

Spelling it "Withlow" instead of Whitlow, or trusting the schedulers....

:eek:Please tell me this is a joke, please.

Exactly, they will make you fly illegal crap and the feds violate YOU.:eek::mad:

In Soviet Russia, you violate feds

The Whitlow letter has nothing to do with actual flight time, only duty time. So under your scenario, you would most likely be owed CR1. There's one caveat: as far as Whitow is concerned, your duty day ends at the block-in of your last flight. So if your company, for example, adds 15 minutes to block in to obtain your official duty out time, you would not be owed CR in your scenario.

Read the Whitlow “letter”: http://cf.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/faacorr/FTDT11-20.pdf

(Look who signed it and why it is aptly named).

Prior regulations limit scheduled flight time for domestic operations to a maximum of 8 hours in a single duty period, with that limit to be exceeded only under circumstances beyond a carrier’s control. Another section of the rule requires that pilots "look back" after every arrival and find at least an 8-hour scheduled rest period during the previous 24 hours.

This is of particular importance to reserve pilots. Remember: Reserve i.e. “home reserve”, while not considered “duty” is also not considered “rest”.

Whitlow rest requirements order at least 8 hours of look back rest within the last 24 hrs (rolling requirements, up until block out and even takeoff).
FAA Deputy Chief Counsel James Whitlow in November 2000 issued an interpretation of the rule in terms of delays, stating, "If, when using the actual expected flight time [for a flight segment], the carrier cannot find at least eight hours of look-back rest upon arrival, then the flight may not depart [on that segment]."

Specifically, the Whitlow letter said, "If, when this information is factored in, it is known or should be known that arrival based upon the actual expected flight time will not result in at least eight hours of look-back rest, then the flight may not leave the gate. If the flight is away from the gate, but not yet in the air, then the flight may not take off."

Example:

(Company considers duty OFF 15 minutes after block in).

Three days OFF, then

Home reserve day 1 CST 0600-1800

Activated day 1 at 1759 for scheduled CST 1950 departure, arriving at scheduled CST 2146.

Am I legal?

Remember, a section of the rule requires that pilots "look back" after every arrival and find at least an 8-hour scheduled rest period during the previous 24 hours.

At ASA, the Whitlow letter has been brought up in the past when the company tries to deadhead a pilot beyond 16 hours. The general consensus is that the whitlow letter does not apply because when you are deadheading you are not "on duty." Although you are, per the collective bargaining agreement "on duty," the FAA doesn't give a crap. In my opinion, they shouldn’t. If you are not operating the controls of an airplane, then the FAA shouldn’t care. The only time it matters, is when you "look back." As long as you received an 8 hour rest period following the end of your deadhead (or compensatory rest,) then you should be good to go.
Not that it helps, but the "hours of service" portion of our contract specifically exempts deadhead form the duty limits. As long as you aren't counting deadhead as rest, the FAA shouldn't care.

http://flightops.asacontract.com/assets/Uploads/12-Hours-of-Service.pdf
See 12.B.1 (line #9)

Yes because you had 8:14 of rest in the last 24 hrs...

Confusion on the Whitlow letter
 

No, you need CR1 (10 hours), not CR2 (11 hours), because you were scheduled to operate less than 8 hours in a 24 hour period in this case. While I don't know your schedule for day 2 (or day 0, if this is in the middle of a trip), I'm assuming that since you say you were scheduled for NR1 originally, that was legal, so that would trigger CR1 (10 hours).

Whitlow triggers comp rest over 15 hours of duty day (because @ 15:01 of duty you now have less than 9 hours of lookback rest in the preceding 24 hours, you therefore are automatically on reduced rest and need compensatory rest when you duty off).

The amount of rest required (reduced, normal, or compensatory) is totally unrelated to the length of your duty day - it is based on your scheduled flight time - not actual flight time.

Yes, this means that you can fly 9+ hours in a duty period, trigger the whitlow letter with an over 15 hour duty day, and still only require compensatory rest of 10 hours when you duty off. Because though you flew 9+ hours, you were scheduled to fly less than 8 hours, which is what determines the length of your rest period (<8 hours flying = 10 hours normal rest). Whitlow then puts you into compensatory rest based on your original required normal rest (you were required 9 hours, so compensatory is 10 hours).

Not so fast. Whitlow does not define when a duty period ends (block-in or at the end of postflight). There is more to this 'caveat'. As you say, Whitlow only has to do with duty time. A scheduled postflight is duty time. The caveat is '121 duty time'. Some shady operations (ie, regionals) say:
'FAR 121 does not require a postflight, only a preflight. The company requires a postflight. Therefore, your postflight is FAR 91 duty, not 121 duty. As such, your FAR 121 duty day ends at block in, not duty off, you are under 15 hours or FAR 121 duty, and you don't need compensatory rest.
While this is playing loose and fast with the intent of the Whitlow letter, it is legal. If your company plays this game, then essentially you need a '15 hour and 15 minute duty day' (including your 15 minute FAR 91 post flight) to trigger Whitlow rest.

It is important to know what is going on here (FAR 91 post flight). Don't just assume your Whitlow duty day ends @ block-in. That is NOT the rule.

15:46 minutes of scheduled FAR 121 duty, with a 15 minute postflight.

• FAR Part 121 postflight = no, as you leave the gate you will have you have 7:59 of lookback rest, you can't take the flight.
• FAR Part 91 postflight = yes, you will have 18:14 of lookback rest. As you take the runway, check to make sure you are still scheduled to land allowing you to have 8:00 or more of lookback rest. Ie, you can take a 14 minute delay on taxi-out and still be legal.

Thats what I thought and that was the position I was going with, but I had another guy try to say that the Whitlow letter says "look back" so that meant also include actual block. I didn't think that was right and went into the books and they were slightly grey in that area wording wise so I figured I'd come on here and see if any one else had more defined wording.

This "postflight" term is way confusing as to what the meaning is. Duty time is report to release for a line holder and beginning of phone availability to release (if assigned a trip) for reserve. You are making it sound like a literal post flight walk around in your description and that is not the intent. You get a "debrief" time after block-in to allow for parking, termination checklists and removal of your items from the airplane while passengers deplane. Most companies I know of have 15 minutes of "debrief" time because you are certainly not OFF duty the moment you block in unless you are sitting on the plane as a deadheader.

So, the pilot would not be legal to go with a 0600 phone availability start and 2146 arrival + 15 minute debrief = 2201. On duty more than 16 hours (16:01) which equates to not being able to look back and find 8 hours of rest (7:59).

Now remember that is just for assignments. The devil is in the details of the paperwork, flight time, and the calculations of crew critical off time (CCO). Once you are at the runway, duty start + flight plan time + taxi in + debrief all combined have to keep you under 16 hours.

Also, Whitlow does not apply to international flying, though most regionals and some other companies agree to treat Canada and Mexico as domestic operations for ease of work rules and duty times (which is actually a plus because Whitlow is more restrictive).