Scab List question?
 

I like to think of myself as someone who likes to gather info for current events happening in the Aviation Industry and lately I've been hearing a lot about teh Regionals and Scab Lists. Could anyone give any direction as to where I can get more information on this issue or maybe shed some light on the subject without getting too deep into the subject (I know it is a very touchy subject) I am a flight instructor and just want to be up to date with things that might affect my career later on. Thanks in advance!!

You can google the official scab list...it goes back to the 1930's :eek:

The official list is for those who have crossed a picket line. In addition there are also informal lists which come about because some group of pilots does something that is blatantly undercutting their fellow pilots, usually at their own company. Pilots who fly for alter-ego carriers are a good example (Freedom A, GoJets, etc.) While technically not crossing a picket line, these opportunistic scumbags are stealing money from their fellows just the same. These lists are also widely circulated among active airline pilots.

Many Freedom A pilots are going into management at mesa because they have realized they will have great difficulty getting a flying job at a another airline...plus they have already demonstrated appropriate management mentaility and behavior :mad:

Read Flying The Line, of course it is one sided, but it has a great deal of history in it. The relationship between pilots and management has a long and ugly history. After you read this book you will have a better understanding of why the feelings run sooooo deep.

So in your opinion does this affect someone in my position that is Flight instructing and trying to move on to the Regionals soon? I figure this is the normal path of a pilot looking to get into the Majors (Not the only path but the most common one). Also, when I do some research on the scab list most of the websites seem to be inactive. I wonder why this is.

As for as scab list go, the list has not been updated since the Comair strike. For good reason, no strikes since then. A scab is someone who crossed the "strike line". There are a few people who will tell you otherwise.

Flight Instructing is an honorable way to make your way up to the majors, not the only way. There are several paths. Lets not kid ourselves. Flight instructing is not the BEST. I know many pilots who are good sticks but can not convey a thought as to how they do it. CFIs need to be able to do that.

Good luck in your career path.

Basically the only thing you have to avoid today is employment at an alter-ego carrier like go-jets...there will be hard feelings that will run deep for a long time.

Mesa will likely strike in the next 2-3 years, obviously don't cross that line.

Union Mentality
 

It's really sad to see people post angry and negative comments about non-union workers. There are plenty of smart and capable people out there who refuse to work for union run entities.

I have no problem with non union workers (I currently am one). It's when management at unionized companies hires non union workers and creates alter ego companies in order to shift union jobs to those nonunion workers and circumvent legally negotiated labor agreements, that issues come into play.

Well as currently a flight instructor.. looking at getting into the 121 world, i'm a lil curious as to exactly which airlines are the "Alter-ego" companies. I'm a little unsure if a flight instructor shooting for a job at one of these companies would be scab worthy, afterall they didnt leave a picket line to join the airline... and more than likely its not intentional (as in my case) of trying to undercut fellow workers, instead its more of an issue of wanting to double my salary from flight instructing to FO'ing. Any suggestions? I know that Go Jets is pretty unpopular atm.

Working for an alter-ego does not technically make you a scab, but it is just as bad in the eyes of todays pilots...strikes are rare today, but alter-egos are not.

You get no exemptions by claiming ignorance...the pilot community has always been tight-nit, the word gets out. And in today's wired society it is inconceivable that you could not be aware of things...

There are many motivations for scab/alter-ego behavior...more money and faster upgrade are the usual ones, but the bottom line is that you are stealing a job that really belongs to another pilot who has put in his time and energy at that company. There is simply no justification for doing it...ESPECIALLY today when most regionals are having trouble filling ground schools.

I would definitely attempt to exclude any known scab/alter-ego from employment at any company I work for. A number of companies allow ANY line pilot to comment on prospective employees...a negative comment to the CP will almost certainly cause a candidate to be removed from further consideration. You don't want to be on any of those lists...

Rick, just my opinion, but I wouldn't consider someone that goes to work for go a scab. If ASA closed down tomorrow and it was the only job in town, I'm gonna work. To me, again IMHO, a scab is someone who crosses a strike line, or quits while a strike is going on and then takes the job at the start up (the go situation)

some kid looking for his first job, Just me..... but I wouldn't bust his blz for it.

St

I've been watching from the sidelines for some time now as some of you that are not even airline pilots pretend to know what's best or what's right. It's time to clear the air about a few things.

I carry a list of all the Freedom A guys, in addition to the master list, as well as, and of course the latest and greatest GoJets. Captains prerogative you may say, but first officers have a lot to say in the matter. If I tell the captain that I am not comfortable with someone sitting in the jump seat, 99 out of 100 times they are very responsive, and suddenly we are overweight, get my meaning? Nothing anyone in this forum can say will change that.

Replacement workers are not the same as scabs, I will grant you that, not by the definition. But they fall in the same category, make no mistakes. In fact I consider a replacement worker worse than a scab.

"The kid that doesn't know", some else said. So now ignorance makes things right? I don't think so, even the tools I've flown with in general aviation know the difference, and despite their arrogance, they made the right choice by going somewhere else. Most people that get hire, do their homework about the company and their standing , it would foolish not to know who you are going to work for.

Some else claimed that it was an "attack on non-unionize labor". Yeah, I'm going to have to go with bull**** on that one too. Skywest and Jetblue are not unionized, and yet I don't see them acting as alter egos to circumvent the collective bargaining agreement of any group.

It is what it is, and the majority of the active pilot group feels as I do, make no mistake I fly the line often enough to know how folks feel. For you guys that are still CFIing, I beg you for the sake of your careers, and the sake of those who wrote the book long before we made an entrance in this industry...do not work for an alter ego, do not go to GoJets. Think long term, do not throw your careers away. There will always be someone watching....do it right

The Dirty One

You're right they are not scabs. But having lived through the long-term fallout of the Freedom-A debacle, I have a special place in my heart for alter-egos... :mad:

There are many motivations for scab/alter-ego behavior...more money and faster upgrade are the usual ones, but the bottom line is that you are stealing a job that really belongs to another pilot who has put in his time and energy at that company. There is simply no justification for doing it...ESPECIALLY today when most regionals are having trouble filling ground schools.

What a great comment. Stay away from Alter Ego airlines like GoJet. I flew for Trans States and would probably still be there if it weren't for guys who just can't wait to fly a jet and don't see the big picture. Stick with instructing until you can get the time to go somewhere worth going to.

Good luck!

So is Freedom A and GoJets the only two Alter-ego companys to watch out for?? Excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject but I just want to make sure before I send a resume to any Regional airline.

Freedom 'A' doesn't exist anymore. The pilots that screwed over their brothers do, however.

Freedom Airlines is now a fully integrated and legitimate part of mesa...APLA, and on the same seniority list.

I would recomend avoiding it just because it is mesa and you will be treated like total dogsh#t, but nobody is going to hold it against you down the road.