250kts to the marker Saaaaab Style!!! Somedays you can tell who the commuters are lol.

250 to the marker will not help interviewees keep on loc and slope when coming from a seminole.

I never break 200 knots in the sim.

I second that idea of going to a sim before your interview. I did it and it worked out very well for me. Just make sure it isn't some new sim where you have an all glass panel. When you get to the real deal for the interview just don't let the sim fly you. As soon as you do you're done. MAKE the sim do what you want it to do.

Just messing around, wasn't a serious comment.

Middle marker, that is ;)

Yeah, I had the same experience. They would fail people for pretty much any reason. I kinda wonder if they maybe had their mind made up to a large degree about who they were going to hire before hand.

I don't necessarily think that's true. Why would they bring you out there for an interview and waste their time, money, and resources on you if they had every intention of just sending you home? I think they are just expecting too much out of the sim evaluation. If you don't mess up the procedures and don't do anything stupid, that should indicate that you are trainable. I don't think they should be holding the applicants to practically ATP standards at that stage of the game, especially with so many people coming in from backgrounds of mostly CFIing in seminoles and the like. But that's just my opinion.

That stage being carrying people for hire?
Many arguments have been made about that point of the new legislation and that one should have an ATP in order to be an airline transport pilot, thus being able to perfrom to those set standards.

You said that you didn't pass the simulator evaluation. Do you know what you did wrong? Did you make a glaring error or two or do you feel like you just didn't fly up to your potential? I always hated that a job could be based on an evaluation of your skills flying a simulator that you have never flown before or an inflight eval in an airplane that you have practically never sat in before.

I'm glad you have a back-up Crawl and best of luck in the future.

USMCFLYR

Assuming you're a Colgan pilot, you're not doing much to help the credibility of your pilot group.

I have a gut feeling, since they only have about 300 pilots at Colgan, that its the other way around, they can find the perfect people that will fit into their small crew, I do not think the sim ride is actually all that passable, I think its just the filter.

Joking maybe??

More like 560 (as of 12/01). The sim ride is definitely passable, I managed, and I'm definitely not that special. They are looking for sound knowledge and basic instrument skills. Putting you outside of your element is a fairly good metric for this. I thought it was a fairly difficult sim though, you certainly had to be on top of it.

For anyone going to interview: keep it slow, use your Non Flying Pilot and study hold entries so you can see them immediately. Other than that, it's just like a slightly faster duchess, don't be intimidated. Good luck

WRONG... The only way you don't pass the sim is by not being up to snuff on your IFR skills and procedures. They're getting ready to send you to Memphis and train you to fly a Q-400 in 6-8 weeks. If you can't fly a SID, brief/enter a hold and shoot an ILS then in MHO you don't need to take up a seat in class.

I interviewed and passed successfully. However; while waiting for the sim I had guys asking how to hold using an RMI or by certain vectors. If you don't understand an RMI, don't use it... If you're in an interview asking fellow guys how to hold when given a certain vector, you're wasting your time there.

Bottom line, all it takes is a little interview prep (sheppard Air) is great for the written portion. Study Vmc, IFR Regs, airpsace and airspeed limitations and your most recent aircraft flown. After that be yourself. you have plenty of time to go over the SID/Apprch along with power settings. (I had 10mins probably because I was a former 121 guy) its a VERY basic Departure and Apprch.

Show up with Pants on and you'll do fine! See you on the line.;)

The sim is passable, but it is hard. The speed, turbine stuff, and full motion aspect are not hard alone, but put together with the stress of an interview, an unfamiliar crew partner, no time to become familiar with the aircraft, and a sim instructor acting like the meanest controller ever, then it is hard.

For me the hardest part was leveling off at 2,000. 2,000 feet goes by very quick after you get over the shock of the sim moving and the feeling of a new aircraft. From that point on, just focus on what you need to do. Keep the sim slow (I cruised at about 170) and make sure you understand where you are in relation to the VOR so that when they give you the hold you don't have to waste time finding out where you are. You have about 2.5 to 3 miles to figure out the hold entry while you are turning towards the VOR, so prepare yourself for it. After that, you get put on a base for an ILS. They had me intercept the GS at 3,000, so I had plenty of time to get the aircraft established.

Biggest errors were not entering the hold correctly and flying the approach too fast. Once they set you up for a base, get the airspeed below 160 right away. The flap speed is around 154, and many people put the flaps in too fast (my sim partner was one, but his ILS was great, so they let it pass). Use the time before GS intercept to get your wind correction and try to get the power set correctly before you start going down. They hold you to ATP standards, but they do give you a bit of a learning curve. I busted my initial altitude by 150 feet and got blasted by the instructor right away, but after I got a feel for how the aircraft responded to power, I just focused on those instruments and hung on. They want people they can train easily, and they can afford to do so in this market. I am surprised most places don’t do such a hard sim. If I was going to hire a pilot I didn’t know personally to fly a large aircraft like the Q400, I would want to make sure they could adapt to a new aircraft quickly before I invested thousands in their training.

Also, they defiantly do not make up their mind before you get in the sim. The interview, logbook review, written test, and sim are all done by separate people in a random order. The person in charge of each section does not have time to ask their coworkers what they think of you or have time to read previous comments. The sim instructor just made sure the folder had my name on it and cleared me to takeoff. After, he put a check mark in his area and passed it along to the next person.

You have about 2.5 to 3 miles to figure out the hold entry while you are turning towards the VOR

Or about one FULL minute.

Biggest errors were not entering the hold correctly

Ummm.... isn't that private pilot IFR stuff?

The sim is challenging, but you are not flying the SR-71 or the U-2. It is a turboprop flying at TP speeds... or roughly 1.5 times the speed of a Seminole on final (about the same speed a 400 series Cessna flies the approach). If 180 knots is too much for you, well..... you finish the sentence.

It all goes back to the PTS standards: control of the aircraft is never in doubt. Yeah, you might bust an altitude, but if you catch it within a couple hundred feet and make a positive correction, it should not be an issue. The same is true for busting a flap speed. Assuming the rest of the ride is good.

Entering a hold, procedure turn, or compliance with approach altitudes is basic IFR. It doesn't matter if one is flying at 100 knots or 500, a fix is a fix, the entry is the entry. Most CFIs who have done a fair amount of instrument instruction can fly a hold in their sleep (I know, because I spent about 10 percent of my instructor time dozing off).

I am not calling out anyone, but I can honestly say when I have flown a sim in an interview and botched it, it was because I flew BADLY that day.

(For the record, the toughest interview sim I ever flew was a personal computer sim used by a FedEX feeder: no motion, no "feel" of a real aircraft, and didn't represent any real airplane, but it did test one's procedures)

Well if I was going to get my ATP, I would do it in an aircraft that I am familiar with, and my performance would be much better... I know how to read a SID/DP, enter a hold, and fly an approach. That wasn't my problem. Just a half hour in the sim prior to the evaluation to get a feel for it, and I probably would have done a lot better. I'm not losing sleep over it.

I've also heard of a lot of airline guys coming back to fly a C172 after a few years and being in sort of the same situation... and I don't think it's because they are a bad pilot, they just aren't used to the aircraft...

I agree that it would be better to gt your ATP in an aircraft that you are used to flying, but unfortunately that isn't always an option and you are still expected to perfrom.
I got mine in a light twin, the likes of which I hadn't flown in nearly 20 years.
Many of my peers get their ATPs in the 737 sim (going through Higher Power usually) when they have never flown a large aircraft or worked with a co-pilot.
Sometimes we just have to adapt and overcome and hopefully it works out for us - sometimes it doesn't and we press on. It sounds like you are definitely pushing forward and that is good news.
I agree with the time to get use to the 'feel' of a sim. They can certainly be tricky to fly. I remember quite a few peers of mine failing the 'computer graded sim' is the DC-10 (I think it was - I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that United used in the mid 90's. I know they were good pilots and would excell in training, but the computer didn't think they did well enough so they moved on to different carriers and most have had successful careers.

USMCFLYR

I was joking tough guy, and no I'm not.......yet I suppose.

I apologize then. You and I both know there are way too many regional pilots who say things like that, and mean it, on a daily basis.

I'm just embarrassed by it all.

Absolutely, no problamo

Just to chime in about interviews in general, what about the next interview? My last interview was done in a 767 sim. I came from flying the SF340 for over 7 years. I had flown 727s for 3 years prior to that, but tail mounted engines are a lot different than wing mounted. Try climbing at 250 knots, 1000 ft/min for only 1000 feet, 30 degree bank, reversing it at 500 feet of climb then immediately descending doing the same.

Just an insight of things ahead.

BTW, 250 to the market in the Saab is not hard. Tq is probably over the limit unless it's cold.

Oh yeah, try doing S-turns then go directly into turns around a point followed by simulation engine failure in a 152 :eek:

JK... :D

sorry but that profile is a trick question....
the right answer is to ask the other guy for an approx power setting, or have him set it for you.

a) greasy side always goes down
b) avoid > 250kt
c) don't be distracted with b.s.
d) In a 121 pax environment there is no way to be stabilized with all of those variables while also flying smoothly for PASSENGERS....so don't try.... Any instructor / ck airman who is ... GOOD .... is just looking for your cool factor. Could they fly that profile? sure...maybe...but they've been doing it for years.
e) refer to a,b and c above.

Sounds like the dreaded S-1, S-2 and S-3 patterns in the Basic Instrument Phase of flight school.
Patterns that the IP would WATCH you fly and not even try to demonstrate if you had a question :p

USMCFLYR

OMG S-1, S-2, S-3 Patterns ... there's a blast from the past. I remember doing those mid-winter in a T-28 with no heat between 8 and 12,000 feet in the "box" south of Corpus. What fun. Next up, "Turkey Airways"...

A litttle before my time (T-34C myself) but otherwise we shared some of the ame airspace! :D

USMCFLYR

Sorry for the thread drift.
Back on track now.

Won't happen. Only thing he would do is flaps on the approach. Didn't have to know the exact numbers, just called flaps on speed.

I do agree that they were looking to see how you reacted. As long as you are correcting and not popping a vein I think it would be okay. But that's what they're looking for since you get no A/T or F/D.

Your PM can set your power if you call for it. Just take your desired IAS and multiply by 10 to get your torque settings and call for it. 180kts is rougly 1800ft/lbs torque. Bring it back from 3000 when you level off, have your PM do that while you scan and trim.

Trim it forward for 3 seconds when you call for flaps 15, that will help with the balooning. (Ex skyways 1900 driver gave our class that tip).

I don't know....When I was there a few of months ago I didn't hear of anybody passing the sim. They were failing people for all kinds of reasons like turning their heads the wrong way and looking down for too long. The sim actually stopped working on one guy and they failed him. I kind of got the impression that maybe they had a pretty good idea who they were going to hire and who they weren't, regardless of the sim ride.

Hmmm wonder who just said this.....:confused: any ideas anyone....:cool:

OK, just keep telling yourself that .

They did not fail people for looking down too much. They failed people for not looking at their instruments enough to keep the aircraft under control. Remember that no one wants to come back from the sim and say, "I failed because I could not maintain altitude." Instead they walk out of the sim and say, "I failed because they said I looked down too much." I heard some strange excuses why people didn’t pass, but the real reason was they did not fly to ATP standards.

I agree. Why would an airline fly you positive space to LGA- and pay for sim time just to fail those they don't like? IF they had no intention of hiring you why put you in the sim?? Stop with the excuses. If you weren't up to suff that day just accept it and learn from it. Don't be the guy that points the finger towards others rather than looking in himself in the mirror first. :rolleyes: