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-   -   Pinnacle / Colgan Seniority List (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/57512-pinnacle-colgan-seniority-list.html)

Mesabah 03-06-2011 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by Farmlover (Post 959005)
pncl holdings and 9e are the same thing.

Welcome to Pinnacle Airlines Corp. | Located in Memphis, Tenn.
Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. | Welcome - This is 9E.

Two different companies.

IBPilot 03-06-2011 11:36 AM

you mesaba guys sure were singing a different tune when it came to XJ/Mesaba Holdings/Big Sky etc....

IBPilot 03-06-2011 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 959021)


You mean 2 companies at the same address with the same people in command? That got their income from the same source? :rolleyes:

Big3win 03-06-2011 11:49 AM

Now, Now......Fight nice boys!

Mesabah 03-06-2011 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by IBPilot (Post 959036)
You mean 2 companies at the same address with the same people in command? That got their income from the same source? :rolleyes:

Yes, they are two distinct different companies under US law. It's the same setup Delta has with Comair and had with Compass and XJ. We were banned from filing a PID to force an integration because under law we were not eligible to be Delta pilots. Management chooses how they want to operate these companies together, not the union or the pilots. In our case they chose to operate us a 2 different companies under one contract and one list. Neither company has an advantage over any other. That's why most likely the arbitrator will integrate the three lists by relative seniority.

IBPilot 03-06-2011 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 959045)
Yes, they are two distinct different companies under US law. It's the same setup Delta has with Comair and had with Compass and XJ. We were banned from filing a PID to force an integration because under law we were not eligible to be Delta pilots. Management chooses how they want to operate these companies together, not the union or the pilots. In our case they chose to operate us a 2 different companies under one contract and one list. Neither company has an advantage over any other. That's why most likely the arbitrator will integrate the three lists by relative seniority.

Delta and Comair relationship is nowhere close to 9e/9l/Corp. relationship......Delta didn't really "buy" Comair for the sole purpose of outsourcing cheaper and getting around scope to the degree Pinnacle Corp did....let's also not forget that 9e was "wholly owned" by NWA till they sold them and got the sham "Pinnacle Corp" piece of paper...

Mesabah 03-06-2011 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by IBPilot (Post 959051)
Delta and Comair relationship is nowhere close to 9e/9l/Corp. relationship......Delta didn't really "buy" Comair for the sole purpose of outsourcing cheaper and getting around scope to the degree Pinnacle Corp did....let's also not forget that 9e was "wholly owned" by NWA till they sold them and got the sham "Pinnacle Corp" piece of paper...

I'm pretty sure Comair was formed to get around the Delta pilot's scope contract. Since, 9e and 9l are operating under a single joint contract with a pending SLI, I don't think 9l was purchased to get around the scope language of the pinnacle pilots. Colgan has never operated as NW airlink or for Delta.

mooney 03-06-2011 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 959063)
I'm pretty sure Comair was formed to get around the Delta pilot's scope contract. Since, 9e and 9l are operating under a single joint contract with a pending SLI, I don't think 9l was purchased to get around the scope language of the pinnacle pilots. Colgan has never operated as NW airlink or for Delta.

you realize 9l was purchased years before this TA and SLI right? 9l with NO contract and 9e on a 3 year expired contract with no talk of Mesaba in sight? or even talk of a joint Pinnacle/Colgan contract? If what you said about 9L is true we would not have been negotiating SEPARATE contracts until XJ came along....we would have been negotiating a 9e/9l contract...and the only reason we have a 3 way contract, much less a 2 way, is so that pinnacle management could transfer the XJ equipment. Without that management would have LOVED 3 separate contracts and associated whipsaw. what does 9L not doing Delta flying have to do with scope? nothing. Just because you fly for a different carrier doesn't mean you throw scope out the window.

Bartok 03-06-2011 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 959045)
Yes, they are two distinct different companies under US law. It's the same setup Delta has with Comair and had with Compass and XJ. We were banned from filing a PID to force an integration because under law we were not eligible to be Delta pilots. Management chooses how they want to operate these companies together, not the union or the pilots. In our case they chose to operate us a 2 different companies under one contract and one list. Neither company has an advantage over any other. That's why most likely the arbitrator will integrate the three lists by relative seniority.

Why would that make the arbitrator go relative seniority?

Mesabah 03-06-2011 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by mooney (Post 959144)
you realize 9l was purchased years before this TA and SLI right?

Yes, it was around the end of 2006, wasn’t it?

Originally Posted by mooney (Post 959144)
9l with NO contract and 9e on a 3 year expired contract with no talk of Mesaba in sight? or even talk of a joint Pinnacle/Colgan contract? If what you said about 9L is true we would not have been negotiating SEPARATE contracts until XJ came along....we would have been negotiating a 9e/9l contract...and the only reason we have a 3 way contract, much less a 2 way, is so that pinnacle management could transfer the XJ equipment. Without that management would have LOVED 3 separate contracts and associated whipsaw.

If memory serves me correctly your MEC was negotiating to combine the two lists at one point.

Originally Posted by mooney (Post 959144)
what does 9L not doing Delta flying have to do with scope? nothing. Just because you fly for a different carrier doesn't mean you throw scope out the window.

It has everything to do with it; a violation of scope would be if Colgan started operating flights under the pinnacle ASAs with either Delta or NWA. There has never been an incident where Colgan was using Q400s or Saabs on NWA or Delta coded flights.


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