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ysslah 03-15-2011 04:46 AM
ASA reserve question
 
Do you have to call to be released at the end of the ready reserve period if you were not assigned anything? I have read the contract and it seems to me that you don't. But a scheduler I talked to said I have to. And what is the consequence for not calling to be released from a flight assignment? I might have accidentally done that once last month.

EVpilot 03-15-2011 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by ysslah (Post 964268)
Do you have to call to be released at the end of the ready reserve period if you were not assigned anything? I have read the contract and it seems to me that you don't. But a scheduler I talked to said I have to. And what is the consequence for not calling to be released from a flight assignment? I might have accidentally done that once last month.
The ASA web board function of ALPA.ORG is a better place to get this kind of information but to answer your question, yes you do. If an assignment has not been added to your schedule by the end of your ready reserve period then they have to release you. They make you call so that they can notify you of any future assignments.

They can assign you something for up to two hours past your RR assignment but they have to do it before your RR period ends. Once you reach the end of the RR period they cannot add anything so if they try I would tell them no.

If you do not call you can be given a UOR.

ysslah 03-15-2011 05:17 AM
What is UOR?

I have CPA-Chief pilot reviewed absence. I'm trying to figure out what exactly it is and if I need to talk to anyone to sort this out. Also they took out 3.95 hours from pay. Did they do this as a reprimand for not calling or is it just a default scheduling thing?

Bigshooter107 03-15-2011 05:21 AM
Originally Posted by ysslah (Post 964286)
What is UOR?

I have CPA-Chief pilot reviewed absence. I'm trying to figure out what exactly it is and if I need to talk to anyone to sort this out. Also they took out 3.95 hours from pay. Did they do this as a reprimand for not calling or is it just a default scheduling thing?
Was this a sick call? Or did u miss the phone call.

atlmsl 03-15-2011 05:23 AM
Unavailable on Reserve. It's a no-show so you were docked a min day pay credit. You cannot ever go home without hearing from a scheduler that you are released. If there is nothing they can do to you then you know you're getting released but you should still call to avoid any hassles. Some schedulers get a hard-on by punishing pilots for stupid things so just play their game and call. You'll learn pretty quickly when they can and can't assign you a trip. I've called a million times while on the interstate home. I know I'm going home that night but I still satisfied the requirement to be released.

ysslah 03-15-2011 05:23 AM
deleted........

WstCstCmtr 03-15-2011 08:46 AM
you do NOT have to call to get released from a RR. Once you hit 8hr 01min you can turn your phone off.

unit monster 03-15-2011 09:51 AM
Originally Posted by WstCstCmtr (Post 964435)
you do NOT have to call to get released from a RR. Once you hit 8hr 01min you can turn your phone off.
I believe this to be bad advice. I haven't had to deal with this directly, but I know of people that have been called in for a carpet dance on why they didn't check out. The company views RR as an assignment > and you must check in/out after each assignment.

Do new hires have access to alpa.org?

WstCstCmtr 03-15-2011 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by unit monster (Post 964480)
I believe this to be bad advice. I haven't had to deal with this directly, but I know of people that have been called in for a carpet dance on why they didn't check out. The company views RR as an assignment > and you must check in/out after each assignment.

Do new hires have access to alpa.org?
That's how I read it. Ref: §13.O.7.B.4


Just out of curiosity where exactly does it talk about calling to check out? I know we have to... i just was wondering where that ref was.

Thanks.

If in doubt call. No big deal.

ysslah 03-15-2011 10:53 AM
Well now I learned my lesson. West commuter, the reference is in MOU 16. It says you have to call to be released from an assignment. I suppose RRR counts as an assignment. I just hope this doesn't get me on the chief pilot's ****list.

johnpeace 03-15-2011 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by ysslah (Post 964268)
Do you have to call to be released at the end of the ready reserve period if you were not assigned anything? I have read the contract and it seems to me that you don't. But a scheduler I talked to said I have to. And what is the consequence for not calling to be released from a flight assignment? I might have accidentally done that once last month.
Oftentimes, they won't notice or catch it and there is no consequence if you don't call to be released. If some jerk over there wants to though, they can mark you unavailable while on reserve (even if they don't call you with an assignment) and have your pay docked by a day. That happened to a captain I flew with recently.

The ready reserve IS the assignment that you have to call to be released from. The manual says you must check with scheduling before leaving the airport after an assignment...it makes no distinction between it being a flight assignment and a ready reserve assignment.

I'm with you in thinking it absolutely idiotic that I would sit on RR at the airport ALL DAY LONG waiting to hear from them...and then after 8 hrs of that I have to call them to ask them if I can go yet.

Send an email to the JNC and tell them how much you think of that and how you want it to not be present in our next contract.

Washout 03-15-2011 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by johnpeace (Post 964689)
Oftentimes, they won't notice or catch it and there is no consequence if you don't call to be released. If some jerk over there wants to though, they can mark you unavailable while on reserve (even if they don't call you with an assignment) and have your pay docked by a day. That happened to a captain I flew with recently.

The ready reserve IS the assignment that you have to call to be released from. The manual says you must check with scheduling before leaving the airport after an assignment...it makes no distinction between it being a flight assignment and a ready reserve assignment.

I'm with you in thinking it absolutely idiotic that I would sit on RR at the airport ALL DAY LONG waiting to hear from them...and then after 8 hrs of that I have to call them to ask them if I can go yet.

Send an email to the JNC and tell them how much you think of that and how you want it to not be present in our next contract.
On the express side RR is 4 hours and there is no need to check in or check out. The ASA policy seems draconian. I can't imagine it staying.

johnpeace 03-15-2011 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Washout (Post 964698)
On the express side RR is 4 hours and there is no need to check in or check out. The ASA policy seems draconian. I can't imagine it staying.
Here's hoping you're right. I'm hoping that we get a lot of QOL improvements in this next contract...even if they come at the cost of payrate increases. I'd be OK with my pay going up only slightly as long as I got:
- better reserve rules
- trip/duty rigs
- higher per diem
- more days off
- more rest
- financial disincentives for the company to extend us or reduce our rest

TopNotch 03-15-2011 05:10 PM
I hope everyone at XJT realizes how awful the reserve system at ASA is, and needs to go. They treat people like garbage. Do not settle for the ASA reserve rules.

johnpeace 03-15-2011 05:36 PM
lol, since launching PBS though...EVERYONE is on reserve! 4 day trips with 15 credit hours and 24 hrs of hotel time? It's like being on ready reserve...at the hotel.

I'd be a line-holder on the -200, but after seeing their pairings for March, would rather be on reserve on the -700.

Yes, the ASA reserve rules suck...but a lot of things are starting to suck at ASA.

jstyle13 03-15-2011 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by ysslah (Post 964514)
... I just hope this doesn't get me on the chief pilot's ****list.
Who gives a crap if you are? I've never called to be released from RR the last 4 years I've been on reserve. I've had a lot of occurences and scheduling related issues that had to be dealt with by a CP and there's nothing they can do to you. I had 2 UOR's as a newhire and 3 so far as a res capt. Just make up some crap about how you accidently turned your phone off. Seriously.... don't sweat it man.

ysslah 03-15-2011 06:41 PM
jstyle: thanks. I just didn't know how severe the consequences of it would be. I certainly will be more careful, but it makes me feel better that it's not the end of the world.

unit monster 03-15-2011 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by jstyle13 (Post 964779)
Who gives a crap if you are? I've never called to be released from RR the last 4 years I've been on reserve. I've had a lot of occurences and scheduling related issues that had to be dealt with by a CP and there's nothing they can do to you. I had 2 UOR's as a newhire and 3 so far as a res capt. Just make up some crap about how you accidently turned your phone off. Seriously.... don't sweat it man.
I feel like the bad advice police. Don't listen to this guy.

Don't worry about getting in trouble from a chief, but I think as an ethical employee you need to do what is expected/contractually allowed of you.

Sounds lame, but if you follow jstyles's advice you'll become another annoyingly disgruntled ASA pilot.

johnpeace 03-16-2011 04:02 AM
The dock in pay is (IMO) the most severe potential consequence.

Washout 03-16-2011 05:05 AM
Originally Posted by TopNotch (Post 964722)
I hope everyone at XJT realizes how awful the reserve system at ASA is, and needs to go. They treat people like garbage. Do not settle for the ASA reserve rules.
Just remember that much of the ASA contract is concessionary compared to XJT's already concessionary contract. We're looking for improvements everywhere especially in pay QOL and are extremely weary of PBS.

Make sure you vote no on the TA if it isn't a gain for our combined group. They have the money and we should get our fair share after all the nonsense they've heaped on us. Don't roll over and neither will we.

Nevets 03-16-2011 02:00 PM
Send an email to the JNC and tell them how much you think of that and how you want it to not be present in our next contract.
By the way, at XJT, after our 4 hour airport standby assignment (for which we get paid 4 hours), we are automatically released. Also, we are automatically released from a flight assignment if after 15 minutes after block in there is no assignment on our schedule, which we check through the computer (no need to call anyone). Lastly, they cannot assign back to back airport standby, they cannot assign airport standby on the last day in a block of reserve days, they cannot assign airport standby more than 6 times in a bid period. And we are automatically released at 5pm local on the last day of a block of reserve days (no need to call anyone).

Here's hoping you're right. I'm hoping that we get a lot of QOL improvements in this next contract...even if they come at the cost of payrate increases. I'd be OK with my pay going up only slightly as long as I got:
- better reserve rules
- trip/duty rigs
- higher per diem
- more days off
- more rest
- financial disincentives for the company to extend us or reduce our rest
They just started paying 200% for picking up trips and working on days off. Reserves can pick up trips on days off when the red flag is up (with some restrictions). Also, they started paying people 10 hours and 1 vacation day if they cannot restore their day off from being extended, within the current bid period. I think we will get more rest from the new rules. Which means getting better rigs than what ASA currently has to protect our pay. We also have $1.80/hr per diem and that's after not getting the $.05 raise we were getting every year. I'd like to see it at $2/hr and a yearly increase comensurate with the government per diem increase.

johnpeace 03-16-2011 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Nevets (Post 965315)
By the way, at XJT, after our 4 hour airport standby assignment (for which we get paid 4 hours), we are automatically released. Also, we are automatically released from a flight assignment if after 15 minutes after block in there is no assignment on our schedule, which we check through the computer (no need to call anyone). Lastly, they cannot assign back to back airport standby, they cannot assign airport standby on the last day in a block of reserve days, they cannot assign airport standby more than 6 times in a bid period. And we are automatically released at 5pm local on the last day of a block of reserve days (no need to call anyone).



They just started paying 200% for picking up trips and working on days off. Reserves can pick up trips on days off when the red flag is up (with some restrictions). Also, they started paying people 10 hours and 1 vacation day if they cannot restore their day off from being extended, within the current bid period. I think we will get more rest from the new rules. Which means getting better rigs than what ASA currently has to protect our pay. We also have $1.80/hr per diem and that's after not getting the $.05 raise we were getting every year. I'd like to see it at $2/hr and a yearly increase comensurate with the government per diem increase.
Sounds great to me, I'd settle for that...

proskuneho 03-16-2011 05:18 PM
Speaking of reserve, which domicile would you bid as a new hire? Last I heard, they would all be available. Yes, ATL would be the closest. But if I could get off of reserve sooner somewhere else, it might be worth the commute...

Washout 03-16-2011 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by johnpeace (Post 965450)
Sounds great to me, I'd settle for that...
No no. This is just a place to start. While RR is gonna suck no matter what we need to revamp our reserve rules to bring them in line with the reality that you could be sitting reserve for years. Although there is movement now, when the music stops...reserve blows.

ASA has the resources and we're ready to work hard for them.

CRJDriver 03-16-2011 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by proskuneho (Post 965468)
Speaking of reserve, which domicile would you bid as a new hire? Last I heard, they would all be available. Yes, ATL would be the closest. But if I could get off of reserve sooner somewhere else, it might be worth the commute...
Depends where the new-hires after you are going. Right now DTW or IAD would be your best bet as they only run on average 10 reserve lines in those bases. ATL usually has around 60 reserve lines. The CR7 ATL won't even be an option.

SilverandSore 03-17-2011 06:10 AM
Originally Posted by Washout (Post 964940)
They have the money and we should get our fair share after all the nonsense they've heaped on us. Don't roll over and neither will we.

Jesus, what is this, kindergarten? 'Fair share'? Welcome to adulthood, this is business, the only thing 'fair' is what you negotiate. Getting paid more because they have 'enough' is usually some politician's campaign slogan.

Washout 03-17-2011 07:09 AM
Originally Posted by SilverandSore (Post 965734)
Jesus, what is this, kindergarten? 'Fair share'? Welcome to adulthood, this is business, the only thing 'fair' is what you negotiate. Getting paid more because they have 'enough' is usually some politician's campaign slogan.
Taking paycuts, and then paying bonuses to management all while the company uses the contract as toilet paper during a critically short staffed situation that they attempt to remedy with 200% pay.

I'm not asking for the moon I'm asking for accountability and fairness. I'll see you at the bike racks after school;)

resetjet 03-17-2011 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by CRJDriver (Post 965536)
Depends where the new-hires after you are going. Right now DTW or IAD would be your best bet as they only run on average 10 reserve lines in those bases. ATL usually has around 60 reserve lines. The CR7 ATL won't even be an option.
Early 2008 hire is the most junior ATL 700 fo last time I checked

proskuneho 03-17-2011 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by CRJDriver (Post 965536)
Depends where the new-hires after you are going. Right now DTW or IAD would be your best bet as they only run on average 10 reserve lines in those bases. ATL usually has around 60 reserve lines. The CR7 ATL won't even be an option.
Thanks, that's good info. Wow, 60 reserve lines! Well if I bid DTW (I have family there anyway) I might still sit on reserve for a while because the more senior FOs might bid the 700 anyway, right?

WstCstCmtr 03-26-2011 07:32 AM
At least in Dulles... WHY IS THERE SO MUCH OPEN TIME??

I thought there wasn't supposed to be any?


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