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Originally Posted by Al Czervik
(Post 967684)
Your ignorance is impressive.
Like I said, you're just too impressed he returned to the sky to fly the 747 again. You guys seem unable to understand the difference between someone who drank and then made a deliberate decision to fly – IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE - that day despite FAA Inspectors effort to stop them from flying. They all knew they were NOT supposed to fly, yet they made a deliberate effort, and were successful in ‘power-back’ taxi and takeoff. You don’t know the facts, do you? Your post reeks of ignorance…of course you may be more impressed by his 747 credentials then anything else! |
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
(Post 967713)
Actually most of us are impressed by his determination and drive to get back on the horse after he made life changes and paid his debt to society.
He just as easily could have been released from prison, picked up the bottle again and gotten lost in oblivion... But then again I suppose that you're a perfect pilot and never made any mistakes in your life. |
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
(Post 967713)
But then again I suppose that you're a perfect pilot and never made any mistakes in your life.
It disgusts me this guy is flying again.
Originally Posted by Max Glide
(Post 968065)
You seem utterly incapable to differentiate between a ‘mistake’ and a ‘deliberate’ act.
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Originally Posted by Max Glide
(Post 968061)
All of you seem to be just too impressed by Lyle's return and never realize he and his crew could have easily killed many on that day...on the airplane, and on the ground!
Like I said, you're just too impressed he returned to the sky to fly the 747 again. You guys seem unable to understand the difference between someone who drank and then made a deliberate decision to fly – IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE - that day despite FAA Inspectors effort to stop them from flying. They all knew they were NOT supposed to fly, yet they made a deliberate effort, and were successful in ‘power-back’ taxi and takeoff. You don’t know the facts, do you? Your post reeks of ignorance…of course you may be more impressed by his 747 credentials then anything else! |
Originally Posted by slumav505
(Post 967647)
Better yet, why did the captain ever let the flight leave? Protect your crew from their own stupidity. Pull of a placard, ground the damn thing. I would think that if you took off knowing the other guy was intoxicated on an aircraft that requires two crew members makes you a party to the crime and at the end of the day can end up burning you as well. If the guy really wants to fly drunk, don't take off, don't push off. Get it taken care of.
I find it to be ironic in that crews complain about management and yet some have no second thoughts about throwing another crew member to the wolves even when they can control a situation such as this. Whatever happened to the days of taking care of each other out there ? Ally |
Originally Posted by pause
(Post 968088)
ACTUALLY, the FE asked the Fed to administer a blood test before they left Fargo and the Fed didn't. SOOOOOOOOOOO, the FE didn't think he was over the limit but He and the FO knew the Capt WOULD be. The Capt (at that time in his life) had a reputation throughout NW Airlines of being a total JACKASS!! Maybe he changed his attitude after he got caught & sobered up.
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Originally Posted by A320
(Post 966425)
How about having a beer with dinner on your layover rather than 6 beers
Cue the music: |
I know both Lyle and Joe personally.
Lyle has admitted his mistakes, and taken responsibility for them. He knows that he can't change the past, only the future. He tries to help other people and because of that I've personally heard him speak at least five times at different events, at least half of which have been free gratis except for his motel room and transportation. You are entitled to your opinions about him or anyone else, and I'll likely not change them. I know Lyle to be a stand up guy who is daily trying to make a difference in his and other people's lives. He didn't ask to be in the Big Book, or to speak anywhere outside of his home group. He has never once came into the cockpit of an airplane trying to sell himself or his story or his book (he doesn't have one). HIMS - A Substance Abuse Treatment Program For Commercial Pilots Iowa Farm Boy |
I knew the guy involved in the incident mentioned at the top of this thread. Really nice, quiet guy... Never would have expected this. Just goes to show that you don't know your co-workers as well as you think you do.
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He captained a 747?! This hero is less a pilot...than a god!:rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by DENpilot
(Post 968077)
I suppose you think that someone who shoots another person should be allowed to keep a gun or child molester should be allowed to work in a daycare facility just because they have "paid their debt to society" and haven't re-offended.
It disgusts me this guy is flying again. |
Originally Posted by JustAMushroom
(Post 968388)
Flying drunk and the offenses listed above are not equivalent. This is a false choice. We agree as a society some things deserve a second chance. I'll bet, given the similar circumstance, most on this board would not have recovered with as much dignity. And before you say "I would never be in that situation", I say BS. Maybe you won’t abuse booze, but at some point we all make bad decisions and if you haven't yet, you just haven't lived long enough. I say, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw grenades.
How many pilots can say that they have never gone out the night before and thought that 8 hours was enough to sober up. .04 will fail a test and it's far from "drunk". |
Drunk on the job
I have witnessed several of my co-workers get busted for being drunk on the job. One confessed to the FAA and yet none of them went to jail and most are back flying.
I do not understand why some are sent to jail while others merely loose their job to be rehired again later. If is pilot is accused of having sleep apnea it is a drawn out fight with the FAA to get your medical back but get busted as an alcoholic and a few months of being sober is all that it takes. Perhaps the FAA is more accustomed to dealing with alcoholic pilots.? Skyhigh |
Answered my own question
I found the following article about how the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) protects alcoholics who enter rehab.
Walter Olson home page - "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of a good beer" (Washington Monthly 9/97) The article goes on to explain why NWA rehired Lyle Prouse under pressure to comply with the law. Skyhigh |
During the public campaign for the ADA, which was meant to extend the principles of the Rehabilitation Act to private industry, supporters tried to assure employers that they would not have to go quite as far in accommodating the disabled as the federal government had. But before long it became clear that the ADA's coverage of alcoholism and analogous afflictions would have all sorts of implications for the private workplace -- unleashing a series of eyebrow-raising legal actions. ADA spawned successful lawsuits to bar medical boards and other licensing authorities from asking applicants about their alcohol, drug, and mental-health histories -- even though a high share of misconduct by doctors is linked to substance abuse and even though many such boards use disclosure of past problems simply as a way to make sure an applicant is offered extra help, explain an otherwise inexplicable pattern of complaints or violations, and aid in catching recurrences early. A very interesting - and sad - article. USMCFLYR |
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