CO-Pilot time
03-23-2011, 07:28 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 650
CO-Pilot time
I am not in the airlines so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
When a First Officer flies the plane even though the Captain signed for it he logs PIC because he is the person at the controls right?
With that being said and knowing people are at the regionals most of the time to build time and move on, do you run into a Captain that hogs all the PIC often? Or is it pretty standard to swap back and forth?
When a First Officer flies the plane even though the Captain signed for it he logs PIC because he is the person at the controls right?
With that being said and knowing people are at the regionals most of the time to build time and move on, do you run into a Captain that hogs all the PIC often? Or is it pretty standard to swap back and forth?
03-23-2011, 07:31 AM
#2
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
The First Officer or "Co Pilot" is never PIC and can never log PIC time. The Captain hogs the PIC every single flight.
The only exception is if the Captain is not capable of performing his duties such as dead or nearly dead.
The only exception is if the Captain is not capable of performing his duties such as dead or nearly dead.
03-23-2011, 07:34 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,031
Originally Posted by Duksrule
I am not in the airlines so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
When a First Officer flies the plane even though the Captain signed for it he logs PIC because he is the person at the controls right?
With that being said and knowing people are at the regionals most of the time to build time and move on, do you run into a Captain that hogs all the PIC often? Or is it pretty standard to swap back and forth?
When a First Officer flies the plane even though the Captain signed for it he logs PIC because he is the person at the controls right?
With that being said and knowing people are at the regionals most of the time to build time and move on, do you run into a Captain that hogs all the PIC often? Or is it pretty standard to swap back and forth?
FO's generally only hold an SIC type rating and therefor can not log PIC when acting as "sole manipulator of the controls"...that would require a PIC type rating for that airplane.
Anyways, airlines for hiring purposes only consider PIC time as that time you are the "PIC of record", that is the Captain as designated on the Flight Release by the company.
03-23-2011, 07:34 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by usmc-sgt
The First Officer or "Co Pilot" is never PIC and can never log PIC time. The Captain hogs the PIC every single flight.
The only exception is if the Captain is not capable of performing his duties such as dead or nearly dead.
The only exception is if the Captain is not capable of performing his duties such as dead or nearly dead.
03-23-2011, 07:38 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,031
Originally Posted by missingbite
Unless the company you fly for types you in the plane, it doesn't matter if the Captain is dead or not, you can only log SIC. Someone please correct me if I am wrong but you can't log PIC unless you are typed.
If the PIC is dead, who the heck is in command?...I'd log it, put it a giant asterisk next to it and then have a good story for the interview. I wouldn't however put on my application or resume.
03-23-2011, 08:31 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 55
BS. When the Captain has the fish and keels over you best believe I'll log PIC for that portion of the flight. Who is in command now? You; or maybe Ted Stryker. Whoever it is would log PIC.
Sure, you wouldn't be legal to sign for the plane. And sure It'll look funny in the logbook with 1 hour PIC with no PIC type. They'll drill you in the interview and you'll come back with a heck of a story.
Or maybe i'm totally wrong.
Sure, you wouldn't be legal to sign for the plane. And sure It'll look funny in the logbook with 1 hour PIC with no PIC type. They'll drill you in the interview and you'll come back with a heck of a story.
Or maybe i'm totally wrong.
03-23-2011, 08:42 AM
#7
Does NOT get weekends off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
The only way the FO can "Legally" log PIC time is if he already has a PIC type rating and is the sole manipulator of the controls. If that's the case, he has a legal right to log the time as PIC.
However, it has been discussed her extensively that not a single airline would accept it. They only accept time that was PIC when you were the captain.
Therefore, while you could legally log it, there would be no point since no other airline would accept it.
What the FAA allows you to log and what the airlines accept are two completely different things. I've sometimes thought I should keep 2 logbooks - one for FAA times and one for Airline times.
However, it has been discussed her extensively that not a single airline would accept it. They only accept time that was PIC when you were the captain.
Therefore, while you could legally log it, there would be no point since no other airline would accept it.
What the FAA allows you to log and what the airlines accept are two completely different things. I've sometimes thought I should keep 2 logbooks - one for FAA times and one for Airline times.
03-23-2011, 08:47 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Professional Monkey Trainer
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by Duksrule
I am not in the airlines so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
When a First Officer flies the plane even though the Captain signed for it he logs PIC because he is the person at the controls right?
With that being said and knowing people are at the regionals most of the time to build time and move on, do you run into a Captain that hogs all the PIC often? Or is it pretty standard to swap back and forth?
When a First Officer flies the plane even though the Captain signed for it he logs PIC because he is the person at the controls right?
With that being said and knowing people are at the regionals most of the time to build time and move on, do you run into a Captain that hogs all the PIC often? Or is it pretty standard to swap back and forth?
-- At least that's the way I interpret the regulations --
03-23-2011, 09:21 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
I called the Long Beach FSDO about this two weeks ago. Except for currrency requirements and time required in pursuit of ratings your log book is yours to keep as you want. That being said, the FAA expects a pilot flying as a first officer on an aircraft in which he holds an unrestricted type rating on to log the time that he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC. In reading the regulation, it is unambiguous. An ailrine can weigh the time as they choose, but there are hundreds of American pilots flying in Asia as Captains that were formally first officers flying in the US.
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-
(i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;
(ii) When the pilot is the sole occupant in the aircraft;
(iii) When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted; or
(iv) When the pilot performs the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a qualified pilot in command provided—
(A) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command holds a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft being flown, if a class rating is appropriate;
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-
(i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;
(ii) When the pilot is the sole occupant in the aircraft;
(iii) When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted; or
(iv) When the pilot performs the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a qualified pilot in command provided—
(A) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command holds a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft being flown, if a class rating is appropriate;
03-23-2011, 09:25 AM
#10
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
To keep this from getting confusing...
Even if you have a full type rating in the plane that you are flying, if you are not the Captain and the one that signed for the airplane you NEVER log pilot in command time. IF the Captain is not able to continue his duties as PIC (such as he dies) then you are the only one left and have assumed command and can log that time as PIC but id recommend putting a note in the comments.
As a first officer you log total time and SIC time for the entire duration of the flight regardless of who was on the controls.
Even if you have a full type rating in the plane that you are flying, if you are not the Captain and the one that signed for the airplane you NEVER log pilot in command time. IF the Captain is not able to continue his duties as PIC (such as he dies) then you are the only one left and have assumed command and can log that time as PIC but id recommend putting a note in the comments.
As a first officer you log total time and SIC time for the entire duration of the flight regardless of who was on the controls.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
