ShyGuy

From DME arc:

My understanding is the arbitrator specifically asked for the MOU that we had for Mesaba furloughees getting on at Pinnacle. This MOU let XJ furloughees keep their old Mesaba numbers for recall, starting at whatever-equivalent year pay (most got 2nd year pay) at Pinnacle, and bidding at Pinnacle with whatever seniority they held at Pinnacle (basically considered new-hire for bidding purposes).

Now, that was fine. But something has happened. Maybe some XJ guys can chime in. There is an interesting scenario that has a potential to exist.

From past communications I've seen from XJ, they stated that they were recalling all their furloughee pilots, and that an XJ pilot had two options. One, accept recall and come to Mesaba. If accepted, they go back to their original Mesaba DOH at Mesaba and continue their life (albeit, forced into the LGA SF3 position). Or option two, decline the recall, and accept to stay at Pinnacle, but will have to accept Pinnacle's seniority starting from the time the furloughee started at Pinnacle (basically, summer 2010).

I recall seeing a communication saying that the XJ pilots could stay at Pinnacle, and since the one list is coming, it wouldn't matter anyway. But hold on, there was still, technically, a 60-day limit on deciding. To me, it sounds like they took a gamble. They assumed the list would be done in 60 days and we'd all be one happy family. But if it hasn't been done, (which the list hasn't been done), then what is to become of these furloughee XJ pilots at Pinnacle? I'm about being fair. If I'm missing something from the story, please add or feel free to correct me. My understanding is either a furloughee could choose to accept recall and head back to XJ to reclaim their original XJ seniority, or stay at Pinnacle and accept and move on with Pinnacle seniority, which started when they were hired here (our hiring started summer 2010, so starting summer 2010 and onwards). They had 60 days to decide. In fairness, if one didn't choose to go back, and gambled to stay at Pinnacle as a way of staying in base, on the RJ, as opposed to go back on recall to XJ and be forced LGA SF3, then that is a huge gamble and risk.

So. What's the deal? Pinnacle's list is straight, clear cut. The wildcard on our list were the XJ furloughees brought over by the MOU. Obviously, it's something big enough that Bloch has been completely sidetracked with a "dispute." Bloch himself admit his decision and award were complete, and it would have been distributed Monday morning. Now, we are at a standstill, with no timeline for the SLI award. We know the dispute involves the MOU, so what gives? I knew that MOU would get ugly one day, and it seems like it has as of Monday.

Colganguy

I have information that Pinnacle submitted a list that reflected an earlier hire date. The original list submited did not reflect this.

Our understanding was that Pinnacle original hire date was not discussed. I know, I know, Higney will chime in, but I don't think it was discussed in the SLI negotiations. Why you might ask.....Because Pinnacle negotiators were difficult to find to meet with. (my opinion)

Second it is my understanding that the new list submited by Pinnacle has been scrutinized by both Colgan and Mesaba and multiple, and if I dare say more than multiple errors were discovered by cross refrencing old lists to the new list.

Just my 2 cents.

Colganguy

Plus I think this thread should be titled Mesaba's and Colgan's dispute.

ShyGuy

Our DOH under the old contract was when we passed our sim checkride, not the first day we reported to class. For example, your class date could have been April 14th, but your sim checkride day could have been June 5th. Your hire date would be June 5th.

But this was fixed in the new JCBA, transition agreement:

V. Pinnacle Pilots’ Date of Hire Correction
A Pinnacle Pilot who is hired prior to February 18, 2011 shall have his date of hire adjusted to the first day such Pilot commenced training, however, the pilot’s longevity date shall not be adjusted.

All the above means is that our DOH will be when we started our initial newhire class, JUST like Colgan and Mesaba do.

So what is wrong with that? Absolutely nothing. My understanding is that this had already been addressed and agreed upon. This was under LOA #2, transition agreement, agreed and signed by all three regionals, effective Feb 18, 2011 the second this new contract passed. Our SLI discussions/negotiations started AFTER this matter of fact. So you can't plead ignorance on not knowing about Pinncale's DOH correction from sim date to class date. And if this is what the fight is really about, I can't believe your two groups would fight tooth and nail to make sure we, Pinnacle, got screwed out of nearly two months of seniority. "Unity" is a word spoken often, but misused even more often. "Unity" in this means unifying your own pilot group, and cutthroat for the other pilot group by nit-picking any little detail where you can screw the other group. As I said before, the dispute was completely classless, considering the window to do all the disputing already ended Apr 15, along with negotiations and hearings.

higney85

I am confident in my merger committee on this issue. It's a dead horse in discussion. All sides will have a different twist, in the end Bloch will have case law and contract language in his hands to produce a "fair and equitable" list. The MOU issue is one far beyond this list. The idea of this MOU was a first in the industry after many (failed) attempts since the 60's. I hope it isn't killed over this. The DOH issue has plenty to back it up and in the end comes back to parity among all 3 groups.

Bloch gets to decide. We are running circles discussing it ourselves.

vtx531

Here's the deal with the MOU. We were given about 2 days to decide yes or no to the recall.

Option 1: Take the recall. Stay at Pinnacle for up to 60 days (this is to protect the company). If the SLI doesn't happen within that time, then the company would have to work out another deal with the union for an extension or they would lose 50ish pilots instantly who would go back to Mesaba. Either way, with this option, you keep seniority, longevity, vacation, etc. for SLI puposes. The 60 day thing doesn't matter.

Option 2: Don't take the recall. Lose everything. Treated as a July 2010 new hire.

Al Czervik

higney- is this 1) regarding the mou about PCL hire dates or 2) about about XJ furloughs?

Colganguy

I am not disputing your statement.

With that said. Pinnacle might have submited multiple copies of an updated list. Both containing multiple errors. I believe the first list might have contained more than 100....AGAIN, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DOH ISSUE. These issues might include a person hired for another job and then hired as a pilot. (DOH reflected original hire date), place holder, and people disapearing and then re-appearing.

This is only speculation though.

Avroman

Pure speculation: perhaps part of the issue has to do with longevity not seniority. On the latest Mesaba seniority list from a couple weeks ago, all the furloughs from the last couple years that chose to use the MOU all show NO loss of longevity where any that didn't use the MOU but still took recall to Mesaba did lose longevitey just as those of us furloughed during the shamruptcy or after 9/11. If longevitey has anything to do with the merger this could be causing a big problem as it could be argued that all those that used the MOU did spend at least a little time furloughed and not working at either company. As such they would need some longevitey deducted as the rest of the furloughs have had happen over the last 3 furloughs. (No I don't agree with that policy to deduct longevity for furloughs but I don't make the rules either)

TeddyKGB

Pretty lame that the 9e union reps post on this forum. I guess some people just don't get it. God help the combined airline if this guy gets elected as a Rep.