One list, one voice, one contract
 

It does have a nice ring to it.

Other than sounding really cool, what the he11 does it mean?

We already have one list.

The one contract part is where i start to get confused.

When do you guys think there will be "one contract"?

2011?
2012?
2014?

I am curious why you have faith in your ETA.

I am also curious how the Local 357 is going to administer FAPA CBA?

This was distributed to our pilot group a few months back. I guess this didn't get passed onto you guys:

Fellow Pilots,

I would like to spend a little time talking about your Exco’s vision for the future. We have been spending time lately responding to the ALPA/FAPA vs. IBT letter and phone survey. We have received a few emails lately pointing out that we have talked about the past, but not the future. Thank you to those that brought this up; we can’t address the pilot’s concerns if we don’t hear from you.

Our vision for the future is predicated upon the NMB ruling we are a single transportation system and that the IBT is the representative body. I want to start by reminding you that the banter between the leadership of the different representative bodies should not be a reflection on either pilot group. While the opposing council’s may have strong disagreements, this should not be taken to mean we have anything against the Frontier pilot group, and I doubt they have anything against our pilot group. Certainly neither pilot group should have anything against each other.

With that said, provided the NMB rules single carrier and the IBT is the representative body, here is our plan:

Initially, for the purposes of contract application and administration, both sides will remain separate. FAPA leadership would become IBT leadership and remain responsible for administering the FAPA contract. They have the knowledge and experience with their contract and we would be foolish to think we could administer it better than them. Their contract will remain in force, as will ours. We will continue to negotiate our contract, not at all affecting theirs. Once we have a new contract for the RAH flying we will immediately begin the amalgamation process.

The amalgamation process is another section 6 negotiation with the company where we combine all of our contracts (RAH, Frontier, Midwest, Lynx) into one joint CBA. I can think of no reason we would not include representatives from the other carriers in this process. Our goal would be to get the best contract possible for the entire group. We have heard there are some fears that we would capitalize on the Frontier contract to make ours better while reducing their pay/work rules. That would make no sense and only hurt us in the long run. The Frontier contract becomes amendable in 2015; likely a joint CBA would have an amendable date at either the same time, or later. The Frontier pilots do not deserve to receive any less than they have negotiated through 2015, and deserve more going forward. In an ideal world we would negotiate a joint CBA with an amendable date after 2015, which would incorporate the needs of our entire pilot group.

In our opinion we have suffered under a sub-standard contract for far too long while the company has reaped the benefits. The Frontier pilots have taken concessions and had their world turned upside down in order to keep their airline alive. The Midwest pilots have paid the ultimate price trying to keep a respectable contract working for a reputable airline. The Lynx pilots were happy flying a good airplane in a fun environment with no desire to move or commute.

For us to think we can keep everyone happy, or be successful by remaining separate, would be naïve. Obviously there is no way to join four airline pilot groups together without some heartache on all sides. The company put us in this position. The best thing we can do is deal with the facts and move forward while looking out for everyone’s best interests.

In our opinion the only way we can help the company be successful, which in turn means we are successful, is if we join together as one pilot group while supporting and understanding each other’s needs. We cannot give the company the ability to rip us apart or pit us against each other. If we remain separate you can be sure that is what they will try. If we negotiate a contract that alienates one group, we won’t have a chance at being a unified group that gets the respect we deserve.

Scope needs to be a top priority for all pilots, not only operating under the RAH umbrella, but for the entire industry. The rest of the airlines are trying to “take it back.” We have the perfect opportunity to “never give it up.” We can’t do that if we are divided.

Obviously I am pro-IBT. I have seen the changes they have made in the past three years. I was converted from being a loud mouth about getting rid of them to being one of their biggest supporters. For those of you who know me, you know I don’t make a decision without first becoming educated on the topic. With that said, my number one priority is not the Teamsters, it is our collective pilot group and our airline.

This needs to become, or remain, depending on your perspective, a career airline. I have spelled out what steps we believe need to happen in order to make that a reality. I have spelled out the steps we will take to make that happen. If you or the other groups have better ideas, we are all ears. We need to have one goal. Without a collective goal it won’t matter who the representative body is, because it will be a failure and forever a black eye on that organization, and more importantly our pilot group.

One List, One Voice, One Contract.

EXCO Chair

I have read that letter before. Rather long on concepts and short on details.

The paragraph that you put in bold sounds exactly like what the RPC wants to do.

FAPA represents FAPA and 357 represents 357. Why is that a bad idea when suggested by the RPC and a good idea when presented by the Local 357.

As far as I can tell, we will remain separate until you ratify a new CBA and we all ratify a joint CBA. This is straight from the Exco president.

Both CBA's will probably take a few years, so according to your Exco we will remain separate for several years.

If the RPC is elected, the same exact thing will happen. AND we will still have FAPAs funding to work with. AND we will have a positive atmosphere. AND the lawsuits go away.

If the 357 prevails, we end up with the same exact structure, without any of the money and with all of the animosity.

One list one voice one contract is nothing but a campaign slogan.

One contract will not be a reality for many years, and the false hope of one contract is derailing this election.

RPC is the only structure that will improve both groups, Today. Not in several years.

Translation: RPC = FAPA

(Like we all haven't already figured that one out on our own... :rolleyes:)

Why won't the ibt exco talk and sell us on the ibt?

you're half way there....

RPC = FAPA + IBT

IBT = IBT

Maybe this will make more sense.....

On June 28th, which one do you want to be a member of?

RPC with a substantial amount of money in the bank (remember the point above, FAPA + IBT)

IBT with $300,000 dollars in the bank (remember the other point above, just the IBT)

Seems like a no brainer to me.

Would it matter?

They are in almost daily conversation with your BoD. If you PM me your number I'll forward to the EXCO. You can get a personalized call.

This is the IBT.

When offered a chance to speak with 100 pilots in a room, they would rather speak to each 100 on an individual basis, with no one else around.

The IBT has nothing to offer, so they rely on scaring their own membership and avoiding everyone else at all cost.

Once again, for everyone to ponder...

Here is the list of pilot groups that have "chosen" the IBT....

Go Jet
Gulfstream
Horizon
Republic
Omni
USA 3000
World
ABX
Amerijet
Atlas
Flight Options
Kalitta
Miami Air

I understand why the IBT likes to call themselves a "cargo pilots" union (as long as you are not Fedex or UPS).

How many Legacy Carriers does the IBT represent? NONE

How many Major Airlines does the IBT represtent? NONE

How many LCC's does the IBT represnt? NONE

If the IBT is so great, why do they not represent any of the jobs that most of us are trying to obtain?

I'd be willing to bet a good amount of dough that we're voting on a TA by this time next year if not earlier, and we'll be amalgamated in 2013. We aren't doing a full blown contract, just cleaning up the trash in our important sections were 96% of the grievances originate. FAPA is once again feeding you info that is slanted. fighting us tooth n nail on everything does have a cost at the end of the day, and it's us trusting you. No "native" RAH pilot trusts FAPA, or anything that smells like FAPA.

I'm sure D.B. would have answered all of your questions... oh wait, that's right, YOUR FAPA leadership said D.B. was specifically NOT invited to talk with the crews and answer questions.

And before you go into one of your "rants," please check out one of the posts regarding the matter (can't remember if it was on this message board or "the other one"). The email chain is there for all to read.

Of course not, it's their Airbus seat, and they want it now!!! This seat/seniority grab goes against everything (if anything left) that is holy in our industry. Who is owed what without doing your time or paying your way with blood, sweat, and being scared ****less...

How can one reason with this kind of senseless rambling? Do we need to define what a fence is again, and how that will prevent this illusive "seat grab"?

exactly. It's not a seat grab at all. It has more to do with protecting the F9 guys from themselves because they don't know this management at all. I could care less about what aircraft I'm flying if I'm paid well and have good work rules. We want them on board with us, not separated from us.

How many legacy carriers are represented by the same union that also represents the regional they outsource to? Quite a few. 2 years ago most of us would have been more than open to an in house union. However that time has come and gone. We may be "inexperienced regional guys", but you need to know that we understand our management and their tactics more than you do.

The FAPA pilot group communicates with the FAPA BoD continuously. We received the email chain, including the original invite....

"To date, neither FAPA, nor our members have ever been told why IBT representation under your leadership at Local 357 will be beneficial to our interests or an improvement to FAPA.* We are entirely uninformed as to how it will improve our job security, career progression, rates of pay, working conditions, benefits, administration and enforcement of our CBA, or quality of life.

*You have also asserted a desire to simply provide your message to FAPA members.* While you are upset that we did not provide you the direct contact information you requested (which ALPA and UTU also did not provide to you) we invite you to speak directly, in person with our members.*


*We invite you to Denver to speak with a meeting of our members in the first week of June between the 7th and 10th.* We will arrange a meeting in the FAPA offices in Denver for you to share your message with Frontier Pilots.* We would like to set up several times over two days so we can give you the opportunity to speak to the largest possible number. We will also arrange a time for you to meet in MKE with pilots from our MKE domicile.* We think it is very important for you to understand the views of our members and for them to hear why you believe FAPA is so bad, and IBT is so good for them. Feel free to bring another EXCO member along with you.* As part of this invitation, we ask that you provide FAPA the same opportunity to speak with your members at the different domiciles to provide our view of why the Council structure we are proposing in the election is in the best interests of all parties.* Good open honest communication should be the goal.*


*A number of your recent communications to your membership have been forwarded to us in recent weeks. Many of these contain information that is quite negative towards me personally, FAPA leadership and advisors in general, and frankly, quite inaccurate regarding our actions and objectives.* Despite that, you profess to be interested in unity and honesty. *Rather than seeking an accommodation of the interests of hundreds of Frontier Pilots the intent seems to be on forcing IBT representation on our members.* Please understand that we will challenge the accuracy of the statements you have been making. We would like to have an open and honest discussion on those matters and the issues of representation."

Gannon could have brought the entire Exco if he wanted, instead he chose to bring Bourne and Turner.

FAPA wanted to hear from 357. We keep herring about how great the 357 is and how much they have to offer.

We invite 357, and the 357 brings 747 and AD.

I thought you guys were practically independent?

Bad choice by Pat, a majority of our pilots do not participate in message boards and he really could have made a positive impact by speaking to the group.

So what do you think is a fair wage? How much of an increase to your hourly wage do you think the IBT is going to get for you?

T5