Pinnacle vs Eagle
 

I received a class date for Pinnacle on August 1st. Just yesterday I received the email from Eagle offering me an interview. Right now I am torn between whether or not to take the interview at Eagle or just decline the offer and keep my focus on Pinnacle for August 1st. I am obviously not going to turn down the offer at Pinnacle, I am looking forward to beginning there in about 2 weeks.

What would you all do? Take the interview at Eagle or decline the offer and focus on Pinnacle?

(I know the answer seems obvious, I am just trying to get some input.)

Take the interview and if offered a job then decide.

Pros-Cons?
Commute? Bases? QOL.

Do the interview at AE. You never know what's gonna happen in this industry. Pinacle may cancel your Aug class date or push it back. If you get a job offer at AE, then it's time to post on APC forums to get opinions!!! ;-)

Stay with Pinnacle. The problem with AE is even though you may interview before your 8/1 class date, you will NOT find out whether or not you got the job until the captains review board happens.... and I don't know how long that's taking these days.

Depending on what you're looking for, I'd go with Pinnacle to be honest.

Go to the interview at Eagle with the attitude that you WANT to be at Eagle. Then if they don't offer you the job or don't offer it fast enough, go to Pinnacle unless there's some overwhelming reason (living in an Eagle base for example) to go to Eagle. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, unless you get to have the bird in the hand and still shoot at the bush....

take the interview because of what most the other people said and the extra interview experience. Worst case scenario, you have another airline interview under your belt as experience

Like what said above , I was given the job offer at eagle , then slapped in the face by the interview board and denied. So if timing doesn't work out go with pinnacle.

Both airlines are hiring a ton . Needless to say I think you ll be fine either place you go. Reserve at pinnacle is minimal , so that helps

Plus you can come here And be based in JFK under me !!!!!!! Lol. ;).

That is what they told me 3 years ago...
I was on reserve with 7 or 8 or 9 days off for 2.5 years!

I would like also to know what people think would be the better choice of employment if offered both. I will be applying to regionals within a couple months and would love to know which regional everyone seems to think is better right now.

Of Course , your crystal ball Must have not been working ..

Exactly, it was DIFFERED!!! LMAO

I don't think there is a better regional then another right now. What one person thinks is better another might not. What you really have to ask yourself is what is most important? Quality of life? Pay? Upgrades? Equipment? Find out what is most important and go from there. Quality of life would be working for one that allows you to live in base, decent pay, days off. Pay, well that is obvious. Upgrade times can change on a dime. I came to Eagle 4 years ago knowing upgrades were 10 years while other airlines like Skywest was down to 4. Now look how the tables have changed. It is so hard to pin point quick upgrades these days. You want to fly a shiny CRJ-900 or E-190 go to the regionals that offer them. To sum it up figure out what it is you are looking for and go from there. My personal opinion would be quality of life is key. Without it your hobby will turn into a job you dislike.

I would just like to point out that Eagle pays their CRJ-700 CAs more than Pinnacle pays their CRJ-900 CAs. Not to mention that Pinnacles rates were just agreed (no new contract for them for 5 years - which will be more like 9-10 years) and Eagle's was amended to 2013.

I don't think taking a snapshot of Captain rates for an aircraft category and class this person won't be able to occupy for many many years from now is a legitimate argument. On the face of it, it appears that an Eagle CRJ7 (7yr) CA makes 80, while a Pinnacle CRJ9 (7yr) CA makes 78, but what's the point? Look at the FO rates and make the comparison, something this person will be likely to experience for the next half decade. More importantly, pay rates alone should never be used to determine ones paycheck. Soft money, work rules, and QOL are huge factors. Add in bases and commutes, and you could find yourself in pure disgust at one company versus another.

So Eagle is better? All for 2 bucks an hour on a captain position he will not see anytime soon? You may not be giving out the best advice with this argument, in my opinion.

If you base it solely on FO payscales: 50-seat jets for instance, Pinnacle actually pays more, with annual contract increases every December. This one is kind-of a toss up these days. If it were up to me, if I had job offers at both airlines I would pick the one that has the base I live in (willing to move to) or has the easiest commute. PNCL has more overall bases to choose from when you include Mesaba/Colgan bases that you could eventually bid into. However if you live near ORD or it is an easy commute for you, go with Eagle.

Go with the one that suits you more personally, there is nothing else to debate. :cool:

The point wasnt that Eagle is better. The point was anecdotal... Pinnacle struggled for 5 years to get a new contract and it couldnt even MATCH the rates of a smaller aircraft at Eagle.

What people seem to forget is that unlike most airline contracts of the current day, Pinnacle Corp's has raises every December 1. So actually at the 7 year CRJ900 pay which is currently $78.02, there is a roughly $2 raise every year. So in 2013 when Eagle is negotiating a new contract the pay at Pinnacle will be $82.77 on 12/1/12 increasing to $84.43 on 12/1/13. So we gave bargaining power to Eagle to raise the bar which we will raise again when we do negotiations 2 years later...

On another note, as somebody mentioned, it's not just about the hourly rates which everybody seems to get wrapped up about. It's about the soft pay. I am on 2nd year pay at Pinnacle corps lowest paying aircraft (9L SLAAAAB) I have been flying around 65-70 hours a month on average and crediting 102-106 hours every month since the contract came out with 13-15 days off a month as a reservist! Could it be better? Of course but the work rules and "soft pay" are where we really won with this contract.

It is very much about the hourly rates, they're what the soft pay is based on. Soft pay on a CRJ is going to be WAY more than soft pay on a Saab due to the fact that a 50 seat jet pays better than a 34 seat turboprop.

Things to consider when deciding between Eagle and Pinnacle: Pinnacle has Saabs (which they're hiring for), and Eagle does not...

If I recall correctly from long ago, Eagles annual increase allowance is based on average of what everybody else gets and 1.5% as a minimum.

Which means based on the TSA and Pinnacle new Contracts should combine for a sizable AIA for Eagle.

This is only true if their MEC hasn't given that away yet.

Interesting that Eagles contract is 14 years old and the rest of the regionals are just now catching up and passing. Very telling indeed.

Be careful about taking too many interviews in the end it might get ya. I had a friend that had the same dilemna and did both. He turned down the AE job for another job and turned out that he got furloughed in 6 months (I know go figure in this industry). But Eagle's got him on the black list now so he couldn't go back to them. But try them both in my opinion.

yes, eagle holds grudges if you turn them down.

Just rumor mind you, but based upon what I know, if you have the opportunity right now to go to Eagle... take Eagle. Get yourself hired before the next few months though... otherwise you miss the boat. :-)

anybody already there will be happy....

depends if your career goal is a regional... if not, then it does make a difference where you go...

+1, I'm not even sure if Eagle is a place you want to end up. Isn't AA trying to get rid of them?

come back and read your posting in another day or two....

Is this TM?

Does the Eagle interview date conflict with your Pinnacle class? If not, do both. Go to Pinnacle class and interview at Eagle. If you get an offer from AE, then decide. You can always quit while in class if Eagle is what you want.

Why? Do you not understand what AA is trying to do? It obvious they will spin off flying or an entire fleet to another regional. It's a gamble going to Eagle. It could payoff or you might loose. AA wouldn't retain Goldman Sacs to to assist in spinning Eagle off if that wasn't their intentions. Look at what Delta did with Compass and Mesaba. AA will probably do something similar. If AA is retaining the 700's thats because they will package this fleet into a sale to another regional since its the only plane that has any value in today's market. No one would want 135's since these are becoming obsolete. Eagle will slowly fade these out.

apparently you also have not heard the most recent news. A person faced with the choices the original poster made should have his answer now. Ealge is the place to be... at least until Oct 11, 2011.

Oh I have read the news. Have fun when you are furloughed or get sold out to new airlines if you should fall on that side of the stick. The truth is with all the hiring in the next 3-8 years you won't need that silly agreement to write your own ticket. Someone did the math and a new hire today I think would take 8-10 years to get called. Are you really going to wait that long? No, 3-5 years you can apply any any major vs waiting around for that shenanigans. Be carful, Eagle today isn't going to be Eagle tomorrow. LOOK AT COMPASS. AA is going to bid out your routes to the lowest bidder and the real growth will be at the regional that gains the AMR contract. I'm not trying to be negative or bash Eagle, it's just the reality of the economics.

Don't work there, but I think it's great news for them... and if our union leaders ever get their head out of their ***, they'd see we just got saddled with every eagle pilot there is... time to break bread, and make our own deals before AMR gets to whipsawing multiple feed providers against us instead of just the one, plus a few CHQ's for irritation.

you have a short memory. Many Compass guys went to NW, and IIRC some still retain the right post sale. If I have read the Eagle stuff right, they retain the right post sale/spin-off as well. There was a decade of slow to no hiring... we're just one big terrorist strike away from another massive slowdown. Yep, if things go great you can get on in a few years anywhere if you are lucky. The Eagle guys can do the same thing, but htey have the added guarantee of preferential hiring... no application package, no interview, no medical screening, no employment history background checks, no driving history checks, no credit checks... just a class date and show up. It's a definte plus even if you don't think so.

I'm glad you got it all figured out. And it will work well for some and not so great for others.

Ok you must have a really short memory because AMR has been saying they are going to divest/spin off Eagle for over 10 years, and it hasnt happened yet. Does that mean it wont? of course not, but even if they do the Eagle pilots are protected. Those planes that go to other airlines will also take the Eagle pilots to fly them. They will stay with the planes for 5 years, and then return to Eagle. The grievance agreement is pretty rock solid and I think the MEC did a great job with it.

You can also look at the so called "math" that someone did earlier about how long it would take to get called up to AA, and you would be foolish to consider that. The verbiage says that a MINIMUM of 50% of the preferential hiring group/class, and then a MINIMUM of 35% of the rest of the seniority list in order. Also there is only a 10-15% acceptance rate for the recalls at American, so it very well could move faster than you think. There is a very good chance that they will pull from Eagle as it is cheaper to put them right into training rather than travel, sim, and medical test costs for those off the street. It will still take several years, but NO ONE knows what will happen and anyone who says they do has the wool pulled so far over their eyes they will suffocate on it.

This is not true. With this new "settlement", the pilots do not follow the airplanes. Instead, AMR will attempt to secure preferential hiring from the airline taking the planes. That's right, start back at year 1 with zero seniority at another regional.

What you quoted is what WOULD have been guaranteed IF Eagle had won the grievance in question regarding transferring aircraft away from Eagle. A win seemed far from certain, so they settled for this new deal...

Mason, you should be the one reading your post today. Tell me what airline you now would choose?