http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=3929325&page=1Something you all need to think about is that the divestiture is NOT guaranteed. AMR has stated an "intention" to divest. They did the same type of move in 2008 and ended up backing out of it.

I'm not saying its the exact same situation, but there is no reason to get worked up until the dotted line is signed. On top of that even if it does go down, it isn't going to happen over night. It will take quite some time.

Still missing the point! AE and any OTHER regional who is interested in doing feed for AA will have to use 50 seat jets in order to do the flying! That levels the playing field. RAH would NOT be able to bid routes with E175, E190's! They would have to use the same 50 seaters Eagle does.
Eagle would have been in 175's, or 700's ages ago if they would have been allowed to.
Why do you think the CRJ700's we have, have first class seats? It was because we were not allowed to have a 70 seater..so yank some chairs out and spin it to the public.First class. lol

This is also very true. People forget the Ae contract is coming to a close. I still think it is plausible that this is a scare tactic to get concessions, and to get the top guys to leave eagle for AA. They have been saying for some time one of the reasons eagle is so expensive is because we are to top heavy. the top 361 people at eagle have 20 plus years service. the top 400 is 15 plus years. If they can thin out the top and get some concessions AA would be real Happy.

Unless AA abandons a route and let's a code share partner fly an airbus on it.:cool:

.... Deleted...
Not worth it.

It remains to be seen how this would affect Eagle, but some of the gloom and doom I've read is way over the top. Most importantly, AMR discussed divesting Eagle a few years back and didn't do it. I suspect they will do it this time, but it's not going to happen tomorrow or even next year.

Most importantly, the idea this move will lead to furloughs and tough times ignores what is about to happen with the industry. XJet and Comair got screwed because they're spinoffs took place during one of the worst decades ever known for airlines. It also happened to be one of the worst economic decades in 80 years.

The realities of the next decade are far different from the one we just finished because there is going to be a pilot shortage. The 65 rule just postponed the shortage for a few years. No matter what, airlines can make their current pilots younger.

For Eagle, it would likely be better to stay with AMR, but AA already gives routes to RAH. It's not the end of the world.

Yeah, except that takes work away from both AE and AA. With this order being placed by AA, which includes 260 airbi, of which there will be 124 seat A319's I don't see AA giving up or needing a 90seat RJ to do flying the 319 can/will do.

Thing is, 2008 was not the first, second, or even third time it came up. Divestiture has been a AMR discussion topic for more than 10 years. It keeps coming up and going away. If AMR can find a way to make Eagle more profitable that ALPA/the pilot group will agree to, I dont see any reason why they would go through with it. The whole seniority list being top heavy is in fact a large part of the problem (as was stated to a recent new hire class by the president). Unfortunately you cant really do anything about them until they decide to leave or retire. No one but the board REALLY knows what the plan is. Guess only time will tell....

SATCFI

You are the one missing the point! If 50 -seaters are not viable without the cross-subsidy by AA (basically, allocating more of fare to AE for the feed from the total AA fare) they won't be viable supplied by another airline bidding the contract unless the regional carrier bidding to supply AA can reduce costs elsewhere--can you say pilot's salary. Either fares have to rise or a more efficient way of delivering the feed must be set up.

Then, AA provides its own feed with A319 or their is relief on 70-90 seat RJs from the APA Pilot working agreement. Seeing as UAL is proposing a 95-seat RJ side letter to ALPA; DL is using lots of them, how do you think it will go?

I see some tense talking between AA, ALPA and APA. Someone is going to have to blink. AA is not too strong in the number three position of majors, squeezed by SW, domestically; by internationally by relative powerhouse DL and UAL (Pacific, especially). There are still concessions to be made, I fear.


GF

Definitely some good points....

Here is how I'm Not missing the point. You said eagle couldn't compete because they had 37-50 seaters. As it stands neither would any other carrier that would bid on AA feed. Yes you are correct pay is an issue with AE we have a lot of top heavy pilots on the roster.
If by some chance AA pilots give in and AA begins to allow feed in 70 or 90 seat airplanes(wouldnt hold my breathe on that), well then eagle would too! We already have 50 on property. yank those first class seats out and there we go.

I'm just saying compare apples to apples. eagle would not be held to bid 37-50 seat airplanes while regional b would be bidding E175's.

LOL!!! Funny, and true!! On a more serious note, I hate seeing Comair all over again. I went through that in CVG, It was awful. Guys, and gals, as others suggested, in this case, history is an excellent teacher, albiet a cruel one, or is that experience-or both?

Delta pilot scope does not allow 95 seaters. Nothing over 77 seats & 86,000lbs(except for Compass jets grandfathered in). Until the mainline fleet number exceeds 767 aircraft, 76 seaters are limited to 153. A large RJ is anything from 51-76 seats, & those can NEVER exceed 255 total. So if management wanted 255 76 seaters operated for Delta, they would have to get rid of all the 70 seaters(which are actually 66 now in a 2 class configuration) and put the Delta mainline fleet at 801 aircraft. Considering Delta is parking 68 DC9's & 16 747-200's, while only aquiring 42 MD90's we are still 42 aircraft short of 767 airplanes & 76 airplanes short of 801.
IOW, far away from more 76 seaters.

Also, the 95 seat RJ proposal by UAL management is simply a counter proposal to UALPA's proposal that all jets over 50 seats be flown by Unical pilots. It's simply a counter proposal. As of now, UAL's scope allows unlimited 70 seaters, & CAL's allows unlimited 50 seat jets and 79 seat turboprops.

Point being, no one allows 95 seat RJ's and it's highly unlikely you'll see further scope relief from anyone. The current scope in place was a result of BK for everyone but AA, & I don't see any pilot groups budging.

Comair was NOT spun offf. Comair is still owned by Delta and Screwed by Delta:)

I should have clearer, DL has lots of 70 seaters, poor sentence structure on my part. Still, the economic attraction of regional airlines, flying anything from 70 seats to, even 110 seats is going to be hard for airline managements to resist. There are several planes (E190, C-series, etc) on the drawing board which only make sense if they can be crewed at RJ wages, either they fail as designs, the mainline contracts carve out a pay rate for them or agree the mainline unions change the scope clauses.

As to "unions not budging", well I've been in this rodeo since before B-scale, they'll budge, take that to the bank. Here's an example, when I was working on my private, a local airline captain (UAL) bragged the job paid a "Cadilliac a month", which in 1968 was true. And Captains lived in Greenwich, CT or LaJolla, CA. Far from true today.

GF

Congrats to all Eagle pilots!!! I believe this will be a good thing for you guys/gals in the near future.

I thought Eagle had exclusive scope over American's "connection" flying. Did this change? If so, how and why?

It reads like other carriers can now bid for the flying you have performed. Is that true?

That depends on what the AA/Eagle prenuptual agreement says.

Unfortunately for the Eagle guys, I imagine AA is writing the prenup as we speak.

I was referring to Jet Blue flying "abandoned" American routes under the code share agreement.

It's in the process of changing now Bar. AMR is jealous of Delta's ability to whipsaw mainline against regional and regional against regional. So regardless of whether Eagle stays wholly owned or spun off AMR is going to put it's regional feed out to bid.

That CA worked for an airline which participated in a regulated industry. The government controlled fares, & balancing costs was much easier. Those airlines dealt with not even half of the things today's management teams deal with. Apples to oranges.

Also, the C-Series can seat 130-150 people. Many Legacy/Major airlines operate that size aircraft profitably today. The C-Series does not only make sense if operated by a regional. Neither does the E190. JetBlue operates them for decent wages, & Delta has a pay rate for them as well.

True enough, johnso29, but it shows where the pilot's profession has gone, both in terms of pay and status. Don't need to remind me of the differences--I went thru deregulation at Eastern under the "moon man" Borman and Lorenzo.

Grew up in CT surrounded by airline pilots, solo'd on my 16th in '68, I've seen all the changes and hated everyone.

It wasn't easy then, either--many pilot strikes, layoffs seasonally, upgrades took years. Few airlines had consistent profits then, either.

GF

True, and sad. I remember when tricky Dick came to CVG and I asked him a question about Comair's future. The guy looked at me like I asked to pork his wife. Shoulda known then.

You mean "every one", right? or are you that bitter:)

Ouch man, aviation consultant Boyd throwing eagle under the bus!

"The reality is the last player standing is going to be probably SkyWest because they've got the market cornered," Boyd said. "Eagle has no value elsewhere in the industry."


Read more: Analysts have doubts about Eagle's viability | Airlines and Aviation | Dallas Business, ...

Boyd is an Idiot.

Skywatch

Correct, it should read "every one of the changes". Not bitter at all, I've done a load of things that I have loved in aviation, love my present job, being in Hawaii with a day off, for example. Just none of it was in the airline side which has, relative to the the whole industry, declined markedly. When PATCO went out, the controllers wanted airline pay, well, they got it 20 years later. In the 80's, everybody derided SWA pay and conditions, they are the top of the heap because everybody else fell. Guys I work with in corporates are deferring recall to AA because pay and conditions are better here; in the USAFR, I had two AA 75/76 captains taking mil leave, because the take home pay (admittedly with some tax-free pay) was better than AA's pay. Th airline terms and conditions have been brought down to the point where it is just another choice for pilots, not the pinnacle it once was.

GF