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Old 08-12-2011, 05:43 PM   #101  
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Originally Posted by SVTCobra View Post
That's the risk of this industry. Do I stay at Mesa and hope ALPA can convince OJ to give us a pay raise, gain more business and lower our benefits cost. I don't have that much faith on either side of the two
Or,will Mesa even be around or turn into a Comair situation where they shrink down to where I'm a 12 year FO making $37 hr.

For the month of Aug, attrition at Mesa is already 7.

Or do I take my chances at K4 in hopes of not getting furloughed.I have spent lots of hours going over the negatives of both and I came up with more negatives staying at Mesa than making the jump to K4.Just hope I'm right.


I said the above statement because you were very vocal and against the furlough mitigation at mesa....and did not want any cuts of your min guarrantee to save 185 junior fos from going in the street....how is it feel now that you are going to be on the bottom of the seniority at kalitta? if that happens there, will you be happy if senior pilots at Kalitta send you in the street?

just wondering...i hope you dont hav to face that with family to feed
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:05 PM   #102  
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I said the above statement because you were very vocal and against the furlough mitigation at mesa....and did not want any cuts of your min guarrantee to save 185 junior fos from going in the street....how is it feel now that you are going to be on the bottom of the seniority at kalitta? if that happens there, will you be happy if senior pilots at Kalitta send you in the street?

just wondering...i hope you dont hav to face that with family to feed
Yep I was against it only because that would have played right into JOs hands given his track record and the furloughs would still have happened just as they did.As you know more than 185 guys got kicked to the street because of poor decisions the company made.A reduction of min guarantee was not going to save the 185 guys for very long, just like the UPS pilots couldn't stave off furloughs very long.

The finger pointing needs to be directed towards the people who have operational control of the company.They will always do what they want regardless of pilot input or sacrifice.

As you may have heard, Mesa wanted the Captains to give up some of their hourly pay rate to the FOs as their "pay raise"

Airline management needs to stop making their problems turn into our problem and then pass the buck onto us to work it out among ourselves.

If the same situation occurs at Kalitta then I have to live with whatever hand I'm dealt.Being at the bottom of any pilot seniority list is always a gamble.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:36 AM   #103  
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I appreciate your candor and wish that none of us were facing reduced pay and benefits. Sadly, this cancer has spread throughout many professions. One of the things that is going very wrong in our country is the shrinking middle class. Shrinking in terms of real earnings and in numbers of people living at that income level. I think attitudes like yours are partly to blame. Too many of us continue to smile and assert how "neat-o" the company is as we get bent over. Money that used to go into your pocket is now going into someone else's. I cannot put a smiley face on that.

The real "job creators" belong to a large, expanding, vibrant middle class with a lot of money to spend. The last time in our nation's history the super-rich managed to accumulate so much of the nation's wealth was just before the Great Depression of 1929. [mod edit: delete politics]

The Dash Whisperer
I'm not the reason that most domestic industries, including aviation, have jumped on the outsourcing bandwagon in search of a quick buck. I'm not an extreme anything and am always open to discussion. I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid, I'm just saying I'm as happy with my company as I can reasonably be. It wont matter how much I whine and complain unless the legendary labor shortage really does finally materialize. I think we all hope it does... maybe we'll finally have some leverage. It would be the workforce's world then and things might get a-lot better for us all.

If you have any better ideas for a guy with a two-year degree and no PIC time right now, I'm all ears. I'm pretty sure I'm where I belong within the industry and that I'm at one of the better companies. We'll see, ...things change.

In the mean time, my philosophy is this: If we can try to hold our heads up, and still try to look proud as we walk through the terminal, I think it might work to our advantage. A-lot of guys (and gals) still do this I've noticed. On the other hand, a-lot of us don't now. This is especially true at this end of the industry. I'm not saying that we might not have good reason to look down at our unpolished shoes all the time and talk about being overpaid bus drivers. What I am saying is that it rubs off on the public and that (all-by-itself) makes it easier for the companies to continue paying us the way they are. This is really where my head's at when I try to continue to be proud of what I do, and who I do it for, despite their apparent (industry wide) growing lack of interest in their labor force. ...hope that makes me a little more acceptable, or at least understandable.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:50 PM   #104  
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"In the mean time, my philosophy is this: If we can try to hold our heads up, and still try to look proud as we walk through the terminal, I think it might work to our advantage."

Were you like the Hitler Youth or something? Feel free to go practice at your local Wal-Mart Super Center or Greyhound station. And make sure you're lacking a ton of sleep before you show. Maybe a little makeup to hide the bags under your eyes is in order.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:18 PM   #105  
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"In the mean time, my philosophy is this: If we can try to hold our heads up, and still try to look proud as we walk through the terminal, I think it might work to our advantage."

Were you like the Hitler Youth or something? Feel free to go practice at your local Wal-Mart Super Center or Greyhound station. And make sure you're lacking a ton of sleep before you show. Maybe a little makeup to hide the bags under your eyes is in order.
You've got a real aggressive way of disagreeing with others. Is this the way you go around talking to strangers? If it is, I can see why you hate your job. You probably think that you're just misunderstood.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:58 AM   #106  
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I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid, I'm just saying I'm as happy with my company as I can reasonably be. It wont matter how much I whine and complain unless the legendary labor shortage really does finally materialize.

If you have any better ideas for a guy with a two-year degree and no PIC time right now, I'm all ears. I'm pretty sure I'm where I belong within the industry and that I'm at one of the better companies. We'll see, ...things change.

...If we can try to hold our heads up, and still try to look proud as we walk through the terminal, I think it might work to our advantage.


I'm not saying that we might not have good reason to...talk about being overpaid bus drivers. What I am saying is that it rubs off on the public and that (all-by-itself) makes it easier for the companies to continue paying us the way they are.

...I try to continue to be proud of what I do, and who I do it for, despite their apparent (industry wide) growing lack of interest in their labor force. ...hope that makes me a little more acceptable, or at least understandable.
It is fine to feel pride in professionally fulfilling the responsibilities placed upon you. I went through a very tough period with an employer in a different segment of aviation. I decided that I would not give them power over my life by feeling angry and miserable all the time.

It is not our fault that companies are using every means at their disposal to reduce our pay and benefits. They are doing it to us, we are not doing it to ourselves.

Earlier you asked for ideas about what is to be done. None of us will fix this as an army of one. What can you do? Give your support to efforts to bring a union onto SKW property. Then work with other unionized pilot groups to keep our problems before Congress and the public. Find groups within your union trying to get us out of the Railway Labor Act so that the weapon of a strike can be used within a reasonable period of time. Today every employer knows time is on their side at the bargaining table.

Don't be one of those slack jaws whose only contribution to his fellow pilots is logging on to APC so that he can refer to ALPA as ALPO. That was funny the first ten times, but after ten thousand it gets a little tired.

The Dash Whisperer
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:34 PM   #107  
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It is fine to feel pride in professionally fulfilling the responsibilities placed upon you. I went through a very tough period with an employer in a different segment of aviation. I decided that I would not give them power over my life by feeling angry and miserable all the time.
I certainly agree with these thoughts. Been in the airlines for a while now, with two different airlines. Althought the job/career is a very important part of life, it still needs to be kept in the proper perspective. No person's job should consistently be making them angry and miserable all of the time.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:21 PM   #108  
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Horizon,
Mesa,
Continental,

Who is next?
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