How can you use a group that makes more money to whipsaw the group that makes less? Unless F9 is going to take poverty wages just to **** us off, in which case your argument that you did your time at a regional goes out the window.

We already had that opportunity when BB put 190 rates on the white board during the LOA 67 negotiations.

They were higher in both seats and every year of longevity than your current rates, but we still said no thanks for a variety of reasons.

One reason was the fact that we didn't want to negatively impact your current negotiations. Had we known that the IBT was going to sue us in an effort to overturn the LOA, I am pretty sure you would see 190 rates in our CBA and 190's on the F9 certificate.

Slum. You affect our negotiations every day... Just like freedom and go jets. Sleeping with management will do that.

Me? Pretty sure we are on the same team. Tier 3 FO, ready to burn the place down for a liveable wage. Pretty sure you meant RPC.

Regardless of where the 190's are, it's one list so it's not a gigantic threat. They are not fenced but the training costs alone that would be associated with retraining almost guarantee that won't happen.

You will learn BB is pretty oblivious to a group that actually will actually hold him and WH accountable to the contract it what is legal. He never had that from the 747 here, so when the new regime took over they are having to change the way the play. Green team is walking down the same path that the 747 and GS did.

This issue isn't F9 pilots doing the flying, it's new pilots getting hired on, at a subpar rate (worse than ours? is that possible?). Then BB shifts anything he wants over to the F9 "company" without worrying about a STS, seniority list, or legacy CBA restrictions. All is possible, when BB has less than half ownership but near full control. The seniority list won't matter.

That's for the NMB to decide.

Teamster Lanyard
 

So recently I've heard that several Rp pilots being denied j/s and cabin seats because they wouldn not remove their Teamster Lanyard? I know of one incident where the F9 cpt was having a discipline review over that? Any news to the outcome? Seriously its just a lanyard and is it worth denying someone a ride to work?

There was a review of the incident and the F9 captain in question was not disciplined. He was awarded the "employee of the month" parking spot at DIA.;)

It's true, at least the asking to remove the lanyard part. I know the pilot affected. Lanyard wars still continues.

Why would he be rewarded for acting like a child? The pilot wasnt riding in the js, he was riding in the cabin in an open seat. My suggestion is to grow up... This is getting way too old. I understand you are all frustrated that a "regional" bought your beloved airline, but time to face facts and enjoy employment or move on. That lanyard had nothing to do with the F9 purchase as Teamsters has been fighting for a new contract yrs before that. I think you guys should continue to do that and see how far it gets you if you think its worth it. Seriously your not going to be coddled forever...

I know him too and he is a very nice guy who is a quiet one. He definitely didn't look like the jacka**. I'm sure we will hear what happened to that cpt because so many people were involved in the write up of him. What a waste....

I'm not defending this Captain's behavior, which is childish. However, it's just as childish to sport your Teamsters lanyard when jumping Frontier. Don't be a dip$hit and rub salt in a wound. If you're asking to ride in a Frontier cockpit then grow up and take off your Teamster's crap. Like someone said, "it's just a lanyard". I have no sympathy for one of our group who's left at the gate for taking that silly stand.

He was riding in the cabin.. So when they are DHing and they get a cpt whose on a power trip you expect that same mentality? Whats next sports teams?

CW's comment was intended as humor. I see some (skygirl) are wrapped too tight to get a giggle out of it.

Smile people. The beatings will continue until moral improves.

Cheers T5

T5,

Do you honestly think that CW's obvious attempt at humor is appropriate to make light of a jumpseat denial?!? I seriously doubt you guys would be making jokes about the issue if fellow F9 guys start getting denied the jumpseat just as the RAH guys are currently dealing with.

Out of curiosity, since a few guys have thrown fits over teamster lanyards being worn on F9 metal, would it be acceptable if RAH guys told you to take off your FAPA lanyards on their metal?

Wear the F9 lanyard! Who cares! I'll allow ANYONE in my jumpseat anyday. Just a guy/gal trying to get to/from work. It's just a lanyard. Unclench people...unclench. I'm CHQ and wear a Teamsters lanyard...it was free...who cares.

Everyone gets all up in arms about the smallest stuff...

The teamsters lanyards were directed at RAH management and still are. Timing wasn't great for the F9 guys but those are the facts. The FAPA lanyards I see we're a response in the losing process.im not taking mine off, end of story. The feeds the fire of the "FAPA" guys. This crap needs to end.

RAH guys being denied a jumpseat on Frontier prohibits their ability to get to work causing a cancellation. This in turn will cause RAH to lose the money that it feeds Frontier with. So in essence this particular captain is just hurting himself. Grow up, welcome the guy/gal aboard and move on. We are in this together...

I cannot agree with you more on the lanyard issue. It is childish! But do not kid yourself that is it is happening on the F9 side only. RAH pilots have asked F9 pilots to take theirs off as well.
The last part of your statement on the other hand is pure flamebait and really unneccessary "I think you guys should continue to do that and see how far it gets you if you think its worth it." We all should stop it and get our rides from point A to B without any political BS!

What needs to end?? These so-called 'lanyard wars' as you called it in a previous post? You just said you would not take yours off, so I guess it will never end.

It has happened approx. 4-6 times now. 30 day suspensions seem to be the norm for the F9 offenders. More than 1 F9 Captains are doing it. Now who is it that is representing them when they go to HQ for the carpet dance? Is it FAPA? Help me out here... My friend had this happen to him quite recently so the "professional" F9 pilots are being pretty childish...

My lanyard supports my union (that actually exists) against management in an effort to show unity. The FAPA lanyards are a direct shot to the IBT 357. FAPA lanyards need to go. Just wear the republic airways ones since they are your alies anyways.

I'm not uptight at all, but thanks for assuming. It saddens me that this continues to plague our company. I figured after 2 yrs that we could all start working together for a prosperous business. I guess I was wrong. This isn't my first airline and after working at my fav (ATA) go down, I just wanted to continue doing what I love without the political BS. Hey I know there is a lot of blame out there and F9 has had to give up a lot. We have too.. aka our christmas bonus but at the end of the day I'm still employed and thankful for that. I'm not aware of any RAH guy not allowing a F9 pilot a ride, if I was working in the cabin and they were denied, it wouldn't fly with me. The front end better have a darn good reason or they will hear it from me. I commute and that's not good karma no matter who it is...
Please explain to me "flamebait?"

FAPA still exists and the FAPA lanyards are a show of FRONTIER PILOT solidarity. Soon enough Frontier Airlines will be seperated and possibly once again be represented by FAPA.

Who is republic airways? Didn't they merge with Northwest back in the 80's?

Now that is funny... They are the company that has been financing Frontier for a couple of years... Truely I hope they can separate and be profitable again... Hate seeing airlines go under...

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do talk to quite a few chq jumpseaters in and out of sdf. Why in the H-E double hockey sticks should a person take off their UNION lanyard? You are a creep in suggesting this. This F9 captain IS a true blue idiot and I would LOVE to have him on our j/s so that I could tell him what a highschooler, scratch that, first grader he is!

The same could be said about Republic if they actually had to market and sell their own seats.

I think I speak for all other professional aviators when I say, who cares about what Lanyard you wear, who cares if FAPA exists or not and who cares if Frontier spins away from RAH or not. What does matter is common decency and acting as a professional to your fellow pilots no matter who they fly for. Frontier crews have always been known to be a friendly, welcoming bunch. Don't let that reputation slip away because of misplaced frustration.

Hmmm, I guess they don't market their seats as a FFD.

Republic does market and sell their own seats.

They do it through their Frontier subsidiary.

And they do it at a subpar level.

Not for long RAH BRO!

That single sentence summarizes so much:

1. This false notion that FAPA doesn't "exist".
2. This is HUGE - your union is "against management", not FOR the pilots. that kind of net-sum-zero mindset is very damaging to your bargaining efforts.

I'd like to see a little more decency and professionalism from the RAH pilots in occupying a jumpseat instead of a cabin seat to allow customers (who enable your paycheck) to get where they're going. More than once, I've had RAH crewmembers leave revenue passengers behind with no more reason than "I don't feel like it". I have NEVER had a Frontier pilot or flight attendant do that.

FAPA doesn't exist anymore. Maybe when you're back on your own, but for now FAPA's just a memory.

I don't like leaving anyone behind myself, but the Jumpseat was never intended to make sure revenue people get on. Be careful with what you want to see because if you're waiting on that Jumpseat and a positive space pilot takes it to help the gate get another HK on the plane then you'll be the one watching the plane leave you. The JS is meant for observation and crew members trying to commute.

I respect the fact you value your customers, but taking a jumpseat when on positive space is a slippery slope. I have been left behind on Frontier twice because positive space crew members had filled the jumpseat. Gotta say its a pretty crappy feeling to completly miss dinner with my wife that I have not seen in 6 days because you guys decide to use the jumpseats to help your company, not your fellow pilots like the reciprocal jumpseat agreements were created for. I know im not the only one that has been screwed by this practice as well.

Sooner or later you guys are going to leave behind a head of a JS committee and risk losing a reciprocal agreement. I know alot of you dont commute, but I have seen my share of you guys living it up on UAL across the Pacific in business class while on vacation. Sure would suck to lose a privilege like that because you wanted to save Frontier one oversold flight at a time.

Wow....what an ENTITLED mentality. JS is a privelidge NOT a right

Positive space is a cost of doing business. I will never ride a jumpseat when deadheading. I'm not the one who oversold the flight. I'm not the one who chose to deadhead. If you do it enough, gate agents will expect it, someone who needs the jumpseat to get home or to work will be left behind, and worst of all it might become policy. Then you won't have a choice. You are out of line telling people they should do it. "I don't feel like it" is a good reason to not take the jumpseat while deadheading.

You are damn right its a privelidge, so stop abusing it by blocking guys from getting to work or home... The same guys that extend the jumpseat privilege to you guys, but actually leave the seats open rather then fill them up to help your company out. WAKE UP!!!!

Wow...do you understand what the JS is actually for? NOT for dead headers , you get that? I'm proud of our guys for sticking to our contract. I almost didn't make it home awhile back because some F9 crew in MCI jumped at the chance to 'help' and take the JS's. Luckily it was a 190 and our CA did the walk (which I never see F9 guys do) and I was able to talk to him. He simply told the agent the flight will not leave until I'm occupying the JS. And why would we want to sit up front with you guys? I'm running into more and more immature F9 guys more worried about lanyards and still ****ed about the integration than I care to deal with.

When we get full DH pay on our next contract, we can talk about using the JS as a last resort. In the meantime, why don't you not be so excited about leaving a commuter behind. Thanks.

Same people will be doing the same job.
Just with a different letterhead on the top of the check.
And, it will still be subpar.

Just a figment of my imagination...wow. Such a convincing illusion! I even see people who are part of this imaginary FAPA. I need to get help.

And what would you say to the passenger who paid several hundred dollars and misses dinner with their family. You know, the one who paid the ticket so that you can have a job? That's what happened in both cases that I was referring to. Deadheading crewmembers didn't want the jumpseats, and 5 passengers were put in the situation that you find so awful when it happens to you. There were no OAL jumpseaters involved. Try again with the logic thing.

If you are so certain that what you are doing is the right thing to do, I would just ask that you go and talk to the passenger you're causing to be left behind, and explain to them that they're SOL because "I don't feel like it", and "I'm not the one who oversold the flight". Or is your message more "I'm doing it for your own good"?