Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-10-2006, 09:27 AM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Ellen's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 657
Default ALPA and Bankrupt Airlines (Scary)

Over a third of the airlines ALPA represents are or have been in Bankruptcy during the past 5 years.

In addition, how come we as a pilot group hear so little about the airlines and the pilots that ALPA failed with, like EASTERN AIRLINES?

THIS IS JUST FRIGHTENING . . . . .

The "Victory" at Eastern Airlines
January 18, 1991. A date which will live in Union Infamy. That is the day that Eastern Airlines expired, with it's last gasps of tortured breath. That is also the day that the Eastern Employee Unions declared "Victory." That is the day that they celebrate, the day they "won the war" against Frank Lorenzo.

Ernie Mailhot was a ramp worker and cleaner at Eastern Airlines and a "strike staff coordinator for International Association of Machinists Local Lodge 1018 from December 1989 to December 1990." He declared the demise of Eastern Airlines to be a "victory" for all union workers everywhere.

Here are some excerpts, from an article by Mr. Mailhot, which was entitled The Eastern Strike Was a Victory for Workers, copyright (c) 1991 by Pathfinder Press:

After 686 days on strike against Eastern Airlines, rank- and-file members of the International Association of Machinists (IAM) and our supporters registered the final piece of our victory against the union-busting drive of the employers when the carrier folded at midnight on January 18, 1991.

Eastern strikers from coast to coast, from Puerto Rico to Canada, reacted by calling to congratulate each other and going out to airports to celebrate.

The sign I think expressed our feelings the best was the one at the Miami airport that read, "We said we'd last `One day longer.' ".

When we walked out on March 4, 1989, most of the rank and file of the IAM sensed our strength for the first time. The Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) and Local 553 of the Transport Workers Union (TWU), which organized the flight attendants, also recognized our strength and our fighting determination. They joined our picket lines. The unity we had achieved between the unions and the pilots' association greatly increased our initial strength, and, in turn, our confidence.

The unity of the Machinists, flight attendants, and pilots in a major national strike, over a period of eight and a half months, is something that had not been seen in the airline industry before.

Our slogan became that we would last "one day longer" than Frank Lorenzo. This meant that we would never let Eastern run a profitable airline as long as it operated with scab labor. We knew that by achieving that goal, we would help set an example for every other working person in the United States and internationally - our real family, not the "Eastern family." On April 18, 1990, in a victory for all labor, our slogan became a reality. On that day the federal government, through its bankruptcy court, removed Lorenzo from control of Eastern....

After Lorenzo was removed, our slogan remained "One day longer," but it became "One day longer" than Eastern....

Because of our fight at Eastern, a boss who is considering forcing his workers out on strike so he can break their union and lower their wages and benefits will think a little longer before making such a move.

As important as that is, even more important is the impact we have had on the thinking of working people who are inspired by our fight and will come to follow our example.

And that is the thinking of the Kamikaze Union leaders. That is why they deliberately drop bombs on their own ships----Because it is better to destroy jobs, than it is to allow anyone to work of their own free will, without a union contract.

And that is why I have long said that unions do not create and protect jobs----they destroy them.

The Flight Attendant and Mechanics unions at United Airlines are now poised to repeat that leap into the Dinosaur Tar Pits, and you can be assured if they do go out on strike----ensuring the total demise of United Airlines----they too will declare that they have won another "Victory for Labor."

Is it any wonder that union membership in the United States has declined from a high of about 32%, in the mid-1950s, to a low of about 8% today, in the private sector? One can only hope that the unions will keep on "winning" those kinds of victories, since the wealth, size and prosperity of the Great American Middle Class seems to keep growing and expanding in reverse correlation to that decline in union membership.


To me it's so amazing that this whole group with Eastern froliced in destroying their jobs, for the benefit of what? I can tell you that the 23 year Part 121 pilot of today has now clue about Eastern. Probably doesn't even know they ever existed.
Ellen is offline  
Old 10-10-2006, 09:30 AM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Ellen's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 657
Default INTERESTING Website

Articles are worth the read . . .

http://airlinesafety.com/Unions/index.htm
Ellen is offline  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:23 PM   #3  
Line Holder
 
Cardinal's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Default

I count 13 out of 41, thats slightly less than 1/3, not more.

And I suppose ALPA conspired with al Qaeda to achieve the most precipitous fall in air travel in my generation? The pilots at those carriers could have worked for free and they would still have entered/be in bankruptcy.

Further, your "reference" is laughable. That site is a collection of rantings. The editor's words:

"I certainly agree that no pilot should ever suffer a financial penalty for making any safety-related decision. To the extent that any union contract prevents such a penalty, it is a positive and favorable to airline safety. However, union contracts should not be perceived as the only possible source of such protection. The FAA, through its rule-making process, could install a new regulation (FAR) that requires all employers to ensure no pilot suffers any financial penalty as a direct result of any safety-related decision"

Yet on his front page he declares the following:

"The long history of incompetence and bureaucratic bungling of the FAA, in regards to its supposed mission to guarantee our safety, is an ongoing case in point."

So which is it? The FAA has put forward no such regulation, there is no safety utopia, as the editor wishes. Thus the only protection a pilot has during go/no-go decision is representation, which the editor decries throughout his website. We are left with the neccesity of union involvement, an imperfect, but necessary solution.

The first an foremost advantage to the employee in an industry such as ours is safety, an advantage that also accrues to the flying public. Economic benefits are welcome yet incidental. A first year SkyWest FO makes 19.02/hr. flying a 50-90 seat transport. You disagree that this should be improved?
Cardinal is offline  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:49 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,232
Default

What is with Ellen and all this union-bashing all of a sudden? She must be writing a paper for school or something.
freezingflyboy is offline  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:55 PM   #5  
CA
 
CL65driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: I am the Captain now...
Posts: 1,006
Default

What ever happened to that list ellen had... remember? "4 of the best regionals to work for" or something to that effect...

.. I'll bet it's gonna be someting like:

4. Mesa
3. Pinnacle
2. GoJets
1. Gulfstream

CL65driver is offline  
Old 10-10-2006, 06:35 PM   #6  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: FO dhc-6
Posts: 523
Default

back in the days when an airline union meant something

not anymore
hatetobreakit2u is offline  
Old 10-17-2006, 02:41 PM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Ellen's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CL65driver View Post
What ever happened to that list ellen had... remember? "4 of the best regionals to work for" or something to that effect...

.. I'll bet it's gonna be someting like:

4. Mesa
3. Pinnacle
2. GoJets
1. Gulfstream

Awwwww. You hit a Whammie. (You lost your spin and are now bankrupt)
Ellen is offline  
Old 10-17-2006, 02:42 PM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
G-Dog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: ERJ 170
Posts: 737
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
Awwwww. You hit a Whammie. (You lost your spin and are now bankrupt)
You are such a tool. Stop making comments that you will not backup. You keep preaching about 4 regionals you would work for and will not name them.
G-Dog is offline  
Old 10-17-2006, 02:51 PM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Ellen's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dog View Post
You are such a tool. Stop making comments that you will not backup. You keep preaching about 4 regionals you would work for and will not name them.
And offer my analysis for free? I think not. That is called Socialism. Do you read Karl Marx?

But I will take 2% of your pay check for the next 30 years (That should be around $50,000 - $60,000) if you would like to make installments for that information.
Ellen is offline  
Old 10-17-2006, 02:54 PM   #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
G-Dog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: ERJ 170
Posts: 737
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
And offer my analysis for free? I think not. That is called Socialism. Do you read Karl Marx?

But I will take 2% of your pay check for the next 30 years (That should be around $50,000 - $60,000) if you would like to make installments for that information.
So, you are not a pilot, just a union basher. Sounds like fun.
G-Dog is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pilots Run Out of Patience With Pay Cuts nw320driver Major 15 11-17-2006 07:45 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:17 PM.