Sketchy Background - misdemeanors
 

Well, I'll put it point blank... I had a lapse in better judgement a March of 2004 which led me to get a lovely not one but two misdemeanors on the record. Tresspassing and Resisting Arrest w/o Violence.... lets just say I'm not happy that I cannot get them reversed, sealed, or expunged.

I've had other people go off to the Airlines w/ reckless driving who said they had a little bit of difficulty but once they got 1200/100 instead of 1000/100 it was easier.

I just want to see if anyone w/ HR exp could tell me how f-ed I am with trying to get on with a regional or cargo... etc. w/ this on my record. Eg. I know Skywest doesn't want anything on your criminal record as far as misdemeanors in the last 5 yrs and if you do have anything ever you have to get a waiver to work for them after its been at least five years.... hardcore!

I'm not HR, but I am a misdoment. You aren't f'ed, you just need to come up with a good interview spiel about how you learned from it and wht it won't happen agian. Now.... the real problem isn't HR related, its the forking arrogant maple syrup chuggy loonies to the north. They can deny you entry, which would be very inconvient if your airline flys to Canada. You can apply for "rehabilitation" 5 years after the completeion of your sentance (fines and comm service count as sentence, probation does not), or, and I have no experience with this, if you need to get in less than 5 years afterward (as you do), you can try to get a temporary residence permit or a "minister's permit". Good luck, read up, and see if you can't find an immigration lawyer with experience re: Canada.

It is not an uncommon problem. Pinnacle even posts the paperwork on their webpage.

http://www.nwairlink.com/pilot_listing.htm

http://www.canadianlegal.org/crimina...bilitation.php
http://www.mich-lawyer.com/canada-entry.html

First Issue: Is your crime on the federal 10 year exclusion list for airline employees? If so you may want to talk to an attorney, but you are probably looking at another career (or at least non-121 flying). The list can be found in the application packet for most airlines. If you are not on that list...

Since it is fairly recent, you will have to confront it. The key question is how old are you? If you're 23, there's a lot of potential for growing up between 21 and 23. If you're 33...they will suspect that if you're not grown up by now, you probably never will be and you can expect serious difficulties.

The Bad news first:

Some regionals will probably exclude you at least for a few years. Mesa will likely hire you (they know you'll stick around) but you would probably be better off driving a truck.

Expunging your record may help a little, HOWEVER do not ever tell an airline that it never happened. They are not going to ask you if you "have a clean record", they are going to ask "have you ever been arrested or convicted". Expunging your record will remove it from the court records for that jurisdiction...it will NOT remove your records from the FBI, CIA, and private databases that take regular snapshots of local, state, and federal court records. The federal airline background check is all about preventing terrorist events, it is not about your civil rights.


The good news:

It sounds like the "crime" you committed was a drunken foolishness sort of thing, and there was no intent to commit a real crime (if there was anything like burglary involved, you better call that truck driving school right now). Most pilots understand that sort of thing, since many of us were prone to it ourselves at one point. If you can get around the HR folks, the pilots on the interview board probably will be OK with you.

At an interview, address the issue quickly and then shut up, hopefully they will move on to other topics where you can impress them. Be able to talk about what you learned, and be prepared to accept full responsibility EVEN IF IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT (at an interview, no one will believe that it was not your fault).

Most companies look at the whole person...if you are weak in one area, you can make up for it in others. When you do interview, make sure you are 300% better prepared in knowledge and sim skills than the average applicant. Also make sure your paperwork and logbooks are PERFECT.

Time heals most wounds...if absolutely necessary, you can get some kind of 91 or possibly 135 job for a few years while you run the clock out on your record. Who knows, you might end up having no need for a regional in the long run.


Good Luck

I checked the Pinnacle website and it said the Canadian restriction applies to DUI's.

True, I flew with a guy who had a DUI, and he had to carry a special written dispensation from the canuck government just to go through customs into canada.

Yep. I wouldn't worry too much. Be honest, admit your mistakes (I'm sure you won't do it again), and you should be fine. You'll just have to work a little more creatively during the interview process.

It's frustrating knowing that we have to worry so much about these things. The bottom line is no one is perfect and everyone makes a mistake at some point. (some just worse than others) I think the idea you need to take from all these responses is that you need to just own up to your mistakes and show that it was a learning experience.

you only have to list felonies on your form i thought?

so dont list anything

Only a count of Tresspassing and Resisting w/o Violences... what do you think

Everything on your record will come to light eventually, felony or otherwise. When filling out application forms, err on the side of caution if in doubt. If you omit something on a form that THEY thought you should have written down then you will be yanked out of ground school during the first few weeks and sent packing...this is NOT hypothetical, it happens all the time.

If they only ask for felonies, great that's all you have to put down. But every airline I've applied has asked about ANY arrest and/or conviction (speeding tickets are a separate category, but you have to list those too). I know many states have laws that prevent employers from asking about misdemeanors, but the airlines seem to have an exemption on that (probably due to security?).

[QUOTE=rickair7777;70117]




Expunging your record may help a little, HOWEVER do not ever tell an airline that it never happened. They are not going to ask you if you "have a clean record", they are going to ask "have you ever been arrested or convicted". Expunging your record will remove it from the court records for that jurisdiction...it will NOT remove your records from the FBI, CIA, and private databases that take regular snapshots of local, state, and federal court records. The federal airline background check is all about preventing terrorist events, it is not about your civil rights.

NOt true. This intel is not available to any public access, if expunged. To boot, it is a federal law that any "crime" expunged need not be told to any potential employer, even if asked(to paraphrase).

§ 4374. Disclosure of expunged records.

(a) Except for disclosure to law-enforcement officers acting in the lawful performance of their duties in investigating criminal activity or for the purpose of an employment application as an employee of a law-enforcement agency, it shall be unlawful for any person having or acquiring access to an expunged court or police record to open or review it or to disclose to another person any information from it without an order from the Court which ordered the record expunged

I had a misdemeanor on my record. It was the lowest form in the state in which it occured in 1997(is was 18) At the time of the hearing, the judge told me to not get into any trouble for a year since I was a first time offender, and come back to court to file for an expungement. I did, and I asked the judge what I should say to a potential employer if they asked to question if I had ever been arrested or convicted of a misdemeanor since I wanted join the military after college. His answer to that was say NO. Since it was expunged, he said it was no longer on my record, I applied to the Navy as an officer, told them I had never been arrested, and nothing ever came of it. So based on that, I would have to agree that if your misdemeanor is expunged, it is no longer on any record, and I think that the Navy does a more thorough background check than any airline, due to the fact that you have to potential to know about classified and top secret info.

[QUOTE=ctd57;70651], I would have to agree that if your misdemeanor is expunged, it is no longer on any record[QUOTE]


the cops know

Not true. The background check to JOIN the military is pretty light. In order to do many of the cool/significant jobs you need a secret or higher clearance...in order to get one of those there is a long investigation process (often over a year) during which they will find out about everything, expunged or otherwise. If you are determined to be ineligible for the clearance needed to do your job, you will be assigned a new job (scraping paint or counting rolls of TP).

The theory behind expunged records is nice, but the actual implementation is not consistent. If you have a past issue and deal with it up front, you know you will not be fired later. If you gloss something over and do get yanked out of groundschool, printing out the legal quotes from this forum is not likely to help you. Ultimately it is up to you as to how to handle thi sort of thing.

Part of the problem is different laws and processes in different states. You may live in state A, be based in state B, but have to deal with a company headquartered in state C (often chosen for it's lax business laws). The company will usually try to apply the rules of the state in which it is based.

Honestly, a lawyer (licensed in state C) could give you the best advice about this kind of situation.

[QUOTE=HotMamaPilot;70623]Part of the problem is that records expunged from the court of origin often do not get deleted from other databases (even though they are supposed to). Any entity with an intel or national security role can and will keep all records forever (the use of said records may or may not be legally limited).

I had a misdemeanor when I was 18 (2001) stupid high school prank after graudation. When i went to court the judge told me if I came back to court a year later without getting in anymore trouble he would take it off my record. when I applied for my first regional job, I put it on my application anyways since I didn't want any risk of them finding out if I said no. I was honest about it durinig the interview. The exit interview (with 2 captains) they asked about what happened. One captain said to the other one about how this should show up during the background check. The other one said it shouldn't. That was the end of that and I was still hired.

After talking to a friend of mine who used to work for a regional airline, he was saying that I had nothing to worry about since it was expunged and the background check that will be conducted will be based on my national FBI record from the fingerprints that I gave the airline that I was hired by. The FBI would disclose any felonies that have occured during my lifetime.(which is none). I would have disclosed it, but the judge is the one who told me not to say anything if asked. I would hope that he would know more than anyone on this forum. It was only a citation anyway, I wasn't arrested or fingerprinted.

know from personal experience that the any information that was "taken care of" expunged or otherwise can be obtained during background investigations done by the government. These are typically done internally however (federal government looking at DoD or government contracted employees (boeing, lockheed, etc) ) How deep the FBI check for the airlines is, i dunno. Post 9/11 i'm sure it's minorly indepth, but, most likely the "likely candidates" are pegged long before by TSA, and it ain't for a misdermenor.

Can't you request a criminal record file on yourself from your state of residence or past states of residence?


-LAFF

i had a court date for playing with firework, never arrested though, i told the judge i wanted to go into the military and be a pilot.
he said stay outta trouble for 6 months and it will disapear. never put it on an application, so far it hasnt surfaced in any background checks for 2 airline jobs, or if it was the employer figured it was so stupid that every red blooded american LOVES FIREWORKS SO WHO CARES!

Well the shorter and the longer end of the stick.... And how I'd put it in an interview... I had a theift by taking which was expunged... Wrong place wrong people type deal... I take responsiblity for being with the wrong crowd and in the end the charges were expunged..... The second one was a little bit more stupid... with the Fraternity... visiting my previous school I attended... just again wrong place wrong time... but this time it was my fault I was not supposed to be on campus... lapse of judgment made me think running was a better idea than letting them escort me off campus so long story short got the Trespassing and Resisting w/o Violences..... Yeah... I'm a dumbass..... usually comes with the company I used to be around.
I've yet to put any the expunged stuff on record w/ my apps... however, I have been fessing up to the Fraternity BS... now it has been a year and a half and I was 20 then now going to be almost 23... so yes maturity has caught up w/ me and I'm kicking myself in the ass about it all... *grumbles*
All in all, I just wanted to see if anyone from the other side of the table had anything to say about it.... I guess the best bet is just be frank about it all and fess up.... I've heard the best thing is even if its not on there tell them and take full responsibilty even if it was BS or wrong place in time.... I mean I'm sitting on nearly 1000/150 and it would be a shame for this **** to come bite me in the ass.... I've looked into getting the latter two to be expunged but its like a min of $4k and its far from a sure beat.... that it would all happen in 6 months if not more....
So the way I look at it.... I try my damn best to get an interview... be on top of my game as far as the interview goes... be honest... give them the brief but full story.... take blame and remorse... and move on w/ the interview... Forest Gump said it the best.. "**** Happens" and all you can do is keep running....

I apperciate all of the help and information you guys offered....:o I think I already had the answer I said above but I wanted confirmation that we were all on the same page.... again... hearing a guy w/ a Dui' got a job is kinda wild... but I guess its how you play your cards... my old instructor go a job with Express Jet w/ a Reckless Driving on the record.... I feel that is right below a DUI and both seem to me to be worse that what I would have... *shrugs* thats my opinion though so we'll see how the cards fall...

Thanks again to all... If there are any HR ppl w/ exper. I'd love to hear any information....