Did Pinnacle bet the farm on out of "seniorit
 

y" furloughs? I think they did because this place is going to liquidate if they follow the Bloch award. Otherwise they would have been better off just keeping the status quo or maybe looking for more growth to offset the losses on the Saabs and Qs.

I think this place is going to die otherwise and I don't think the banruptcy judge will allow that. But maybe. Who knows...

Seriously, give it a rest. What your proposing would absolutely murder what shred of hope is left for this industry. If it were allowed to happen every airline in the country would immediately file bankruptcy and furlough from the top of the seniority list because that's where they spend the most money. Get your head out of the sand and think about your fellow pilots for once and not just yourself. This "it's all about me" mentality that is starting to show up from several pinnacle pilots is making me think this place is quickly becoming the next GoJet.

Out of Seniority will never happen. There is no precedent for it in the courts, no union will ever agree to it. ALAPA National would never allow it. I believe that there would be an illegal strike before you ever see an out of seniority furlough.

You're right, Obama has his own problems to worry about. The Judges will have to decide this one...

lol! good one!

Get it over it.... If you know you're going to be furloughed apply out now. I have and lucky enough to have interviews in the coming weeks... I would never advocate out of seniority furloughs even if it ment me keeping my job. VTX you're looking at the now and what's good for me instead you should be focusing on the future and what's good for the tribe "pilots"... Let me guess, you're a zero-hero hire, right?

I think what everyone is forgetting is that a big reason we went BK is so we dont have to pay our old debt and keep flying on bad contracts.
Now we have a positive cash flow, and have gotten rid of bad contracts and now dont have to pay our old debt.
We have the money to pay for these training events in the future.

Not quite. Because 9E Corp is in a unique position where, at one time, we had one seniority list for 3 separate groups, with 3 separate ID badges, and 3 separate uniforms and manuals. That's not really one airline, even though ALPA wants to tout one-list. In this particular case, it's still 3 airlines and one particular airline is disappearing altogether. I don't think the other 2 airlines (which is now one airline with the fenced operation) should have to take any hits for the cuts of Colgan. Mesaba's Saab cuts were able to be absorbed without anyone being furloughed. But if one Pinnacle or Mesaba pilot gets furloughed as a result of Colgan aircraft being parked, then this whole thing will be a real sham.

I agree that I can't think of a past precedent, but never say never. Your other comments about the union will never agree with it will not matter, because in BK management will file motion 1113e and the union's wants aren't really binding. Same with ALPA national, and there will be no illegal strike unless you're willing to be fined, fired, or jailed.

Why do you think they would liquidate?

The company has $30 million in cash and EVERY fleet type as of 4/02/2012 is making a profit. From the bankruptcy declaration PNCL has a new rate agreement with Delta for the 900 wind down, 140 200s and the original Mesaba 900's which produced higher margins.

The United wind down agreement called for higher margin as well in the understanding that PNCL would continue operating the Q400 until the wind down was complete.

So in 1 day the company solved their liquidity crisis and negative cash flow crisis.

Everyone keeps freaking out about 600 Colgan guys coming to fly RJs and the training that will take. Only 300 guys in reality are going to the RJ from Colgan. The other 300 will be furloughed.

300 * 25k/training even = $7.5 million.

Wychor said last night the company willfully admits they don't meet the criteria for an 1113e.

right on. except I noticed the mentality starting about 4 years ago. And it's still climbing...

I think it started alot longer than 4 years ago, but it is getting progressively worse as time moves on.

What ever happened to supporting your fellow pilots, as if a job at Pinnacle airlines, working for scumbags like Sean M. and Phil T., is worth it.

The its all about me attitude started with the baby boomers.

"All about me" attitude? Propose a straight up DOH and see who beotches against it. Can you throw the "all about me" attitude to them? After all, they wouldn't have 15 month Captains anymore if it was DOH. Or, is the "it's all about me" attitude only reserved for Pinnacle pilots who are now PO'ed at the company and the union (lack of agreement amongst themselves and for the lawyer's binding arbitration) for where we are today.

Your MEC agreed to binding arbitration. Just because it did not turn out the way you wanted does mean you get to change your mind.

Bloch gave us a list and it is our seniority list whether you like it or not. No judge is going to throw out a decision made by a neutral arbitrator. You guys over at Pinnacle are turning this into US Airways regional style.

Good luck to those getting furloughed, in the conference call they mentioned something about working with other ALPA carriers to get furloughed pilots new jobs.

These guys are all into the DOH and ignoring binding arbitration thing, too. It's working out fantastic for them!

USAPA: US Airline Pilots Association

The union agreed to a lot of things behind our backs. We were just notified or told after when it was matter of fact. And working with other ALPA carriers to get jobs? Keep your options open. If GoJets hires you, go. Don't get sucked into the "ALPA carrier only" doorway. There are more options.

Are these other ALPA carriers going to be something other than another regional? I'm not starting over again. I'll start over at a place that is worth it.

If you mean major or legacy, the only ones hiring right now are Spirit (ALPA), Virgin (non-union), Fedex, umm.....?

I think a liveable FO wages would help quell the internal struggle for upgrades. Just sayin'...

Doubtful- upgrades are one of the primary ways out of outsourced flying purgatory.

until downgrades/furloughs happen

I'd bet at least half the regional FOs would take the upgrade for FO pay. Some would do it to hopefully expedite their way out, some would do it just to be a "captain"

This is why pilots got to Great Lakes, who pay Captains as much as FOs at other airlines.

Kind of like guys that went to colgan before 2010.

Zing......

Facts to back up that claim?

I don't know any airline that flew a 34-seat turboprop and had FO's making $47/hr.

I don't know any airline that flew a 74-seat turboprop and had FO's making $58/hr.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Colgan was a bottom feeder, but these little jabs at pre-merger Colgan pilots that make you feel better inside are quite childish.

I've never liked that term, Bottom Feeder, when talking about a regional airline.

I'm just curious as to how one differentiates regional airlines as bottom feeders when compared to other regional airlines?


If all regional airlines run feed into hub airports, aren't all regional airlines bottom feeders to some extent?

Nevertheless, I don't like the term, and I find using it disrespectful towards other pilots.

Some of us embrace the honored term "Bottom Feeder". We, like the mighty and noble Catfish, thrive on the scraps others overlook. We tolerate poorly oxygenated water, and, just like the "walking catfish" (an invasive species), can move from one stagnate pond to the next.



Actually, there is a difference between the "Connection" type regionals and the "Express" regionals. Connections, formerly called trunk carriers feed into the mainline, while Expresses displace mainline aircraft.

Personally, I don't have an issue with Connectors. United, for example, already has six types of aircraft with a total of 14 versions. Is it really cost effective for them to add a couple more types (typically turbo props) when those aircraft augment, rather than replace, mainline aircraft?

Ok, lets look at a positive. Maybe when this is all done the pilots left can all come together as one group and stop all this bickering. No more Colgan/Mesaba/Pinnacle. I am getting sick of all the bs that comes us vs them.