Good Idea. Good luck getting it to pass. Our managment is in bed with the senators. I can write all the letters I want, but without a check attached nothing happens.

You guys are approaching this from the wrong end
 

Well chew on this chief, there is an equal learning curve when you switch to a jet regardless of your background! Hence, the Feds make the guy in the left seat the one responsible for everyone's lives.

You guys are approaching this from the wrong end. The senior pilots at every "regional" are typically the ones that negotiate and pass the contracts. Let us not forget (for those of you that actually work in the industry) that at any ALPA carrier you're not allow to vote until you're off probation (1 year). So again, talk to your negotiating commitee, and ask them why the 1st year pay is so low across the board. You'll be surprised at the answer!

I think its a great idea! One of the main reasons it won't work is because there aren't any benefits for the carriers. Sure, you could argue that higher time pilots would be safer, but the regionals already have near perfect safety records. Better qualified pilots will demand higher wages, which would increase expenses for these companies. I don't think they'd want to do that.

Remember the 90's!
 

Hahaha, better qualified pilots will demand higher wages???!?!?!?!! That's funny, you clearly don't remember the mid 90's. Guys would get the job at a number of regionals, and they still had to drop 10K for training, COEX use to do it back in the day...and every applicant use to have well over the 1200 hour mark.

Do some homework guys! This is an issue that has to be address by the negotiating committees.

Exactly, why do you need 1200 hours to fly boxes at night, but only 250 to schlep people?

My thoughts were along the lines of reducing the supply side of the equasion. Fewer pilots available, and those available already have jobs, would by the law of Supply & Demand, cause an increase in the value of a scarce commodity; qualified pilots.

Sanchez, you have a valid point as well. We need to make 1st year compensation a priority in our contracts, despite the 'fact' that we don't directly benefit.

I agree with this......this coveted time is a huge part of why pilots are undercutting each other ....they think that after the 1000 hours pic their phone will start ringing .....but in reality it wont and doesnt.

I know quite a few guys at AE that got hired at CAL with zero PIC 121 or turbine time.....just their CFI time as PIC....and they all were not interns.

just an opinion.....no flame intended but I think 1000 hours of turbo prop PIC should be required and watch SJS suddenly get cured

There will be ALOT of disgruntled pilots at those fast upgrade regionals in a few years because they thought they would be gone by now......but still there

Believe me, I would love our 500 hour FOs to have an ATP, but in the end, they really aren't doing anything that an ATP would improve. They're button mashers and switch b*****s. The jobs of capt. and FO will still be the same regardless if the FO has an ATP: the capt. is still going to be the training wheels for the FO. And that's fine, that's how the system is set up. That's how I learned. I made mistakes and cut my teeth over 1,000 hours in the right seat.

As for requiring an ATP for new hires, who's going to require it? The airlines? They don't want to do it because it will make FOs more expensive in the short run, and they would argue, as would I, that an FO with 1500 hrs and an ATP is no safer than an FO with 1500 and 1200 dual given.

Someone earlier asked why you only need 250 to move people but 1200 to move boxes. You can move people with 250, as long as you've got that 1500 hour capt. next to you, keeping you from turning final at 300', dropping the flaps overspeed, overtorquing the engines, etc. (and that was all in the last week.)

In short, an ATP is not going to add to the pay of regionals, just add to the debt of people that are trying to get there.

I believe that it would improve the pay/QOL of our entire profession if it were more difficult to become a commercial pilot and earn an ATP rating.

We have all seen some of the sub-par flight-school students that pass their commercial/CFI checkrides and join the already saturated pilots seeking work market.

I currently work for an non-us carrier and to get the job I had to pass very difficult exams which in turn siginificantly thinned the field of qualified candidates. To get my U.S. commercial converted, I had to get a type rating and all of our pilots, Capts and F/Os are type rated.The law of supply and demand kicked in, and 1st year F/Os on a DH-8 make $1,700 USD base and with 60 hrs of flying per month clear $3,000 USD (including per diem and meal allowances). That scale is unheard of in the US at this time but is found in other countries that also have higher standards, for e.g. countries that use the JAR standards.

Total time may not be the best/only indication of a pilot's ability and knowledge. International airlines such as BA, VS, LH and others have shown that a well trained, intelligent and perceptive low-time pilot may be a perfect fit in the right seat of an airliner.

Just to throw this out there...I wouldn't consider Comair a pilot factory. Sure we give more tickets than anywhere else HOWEVER....

1. It's not PFT, we pay for our tickets the same way that you would at an FBO, sure at a slightly higher rate than locally. (in some cases, i actually saved money to go there than when i trained locally. sure i went from flying brand new 72's to old $h!tty ones, but it was still cheaper)

2. We do actually get paid to flight instruct, sure it's i think $11/hour now. (dont work there anymore heard they got a raise)

3. Guys that go through the program come out with about 1100 hours+, where as the other places are putting 500 hour kids in the right seat.


I will agree to a certain extent, if there were no opportunities for people to just drop $50K or more to get their certs. in 1 year or less then that might improve things a little. But again, this is capitalism and thats how it works, whatcha gonna do.

Ya Know
 

It was just a few short years ago that the average new hire at the regionals had over 2500 hours and an ATP. I am sure that in a year or two we will most likely be back to that anyway.

Skyhigh