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-   -   Be first to freeze, Comair pilots told (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/67-first-freeze-comair-pilots-told.html)

SWAjet 02-28-2005 10:06 AM

Be first to freeze, Comair pilots told
 
Be first to freeze, Comair pilots told

By John Nolan
Associated Press

Comair pilots whose 2001 contract raised the bar for wages among regional airlines are now being asked to lead the way among union employees in accepting pay freezes.

The Delta subsidiary says that, without mid-contract pay freezes from pilots and flight attendants, it cannot afford to buy up to 35 new jets that management says are needed to win business that is going to its competitors.

The Comair pilots are voting through Tuesday on a new contract proposal that includes a pay freeze in exchange for other improvements that the Air Line Pilots Union requested. "Somebody has to be first. You'd like to think it would be the pilots," said Doug Abbey, a partner at the Velocity Group, an aviation consulting firm in Washington, D.C.

Comair is still negotiating with its flight attendants, who are paid between $20,000 and $40,000.

Comair's pilots went on strike for three months in 2001 to obtain their contract, which made them the highest-paid among regional airlines. It pays a senior captain up to $109,000 -- and helps make Comair's operating costs higher than rivals. That makes it critical that the pilots -- as the highest-paid among Comair's union employees -- lead the way in accepting pay freezes, analysts said.

Even though Comair is owned by Delta Air Lines, Delta recently bypassed Cincinnati-based Comair and awarded a contract for regional flying to Chautauqua Airlines, a low-cost operator. Chautauqua pays a senior captain $90,720. Atlantic Southeast Airline, another Delta-owned regional carrier, gives its pilots top pay of $98,484.

Comair will suffer if it continues to be bypassed, said analyst Ray Neidl of Calyon Securities in New York. "They won't go out of business, necessarily, but they'll have limited opportunities for growth," Neidl said.

Comair president Fred Buttrell has appealed to the unions by promising expanded business could mean creating hundreds of jobs for pilots, flight attendants and mechanics. Comair also imposed a pay freeze among nonunion employees and 10 percent pay cuts starting Tuesday for Buttrell and other top officers.

Comair says it needs cooperation from all its 6,200 employees, not just the pilots. Comair's nearly 400 mechanics rejected a contract proposal last week. No new date has been set to resume those talks.

andy171773 08-25-2008 06:18 AM

I'll Never Vote Yes!

Killer51883 08-25-2008 06:28 AM

that article should say what the first year pilots make. its pathetic that alpa wants them to take a pay freeze

TristarJS30 08-25-2008 06:29 AM

Why bring something up from 3 years ago?

andy171773 08-25-2008 06:31 AM

That's what happens on ready reserves..i like to see how many people bite

p1ayn 08-25-2008 06:31 AM


Originally Posted by TristarJS30 (Post 449523)
Why bring something up from 3 years ago?

Let us not forget! Viva la Resistance! :cool:

andy171773 08-25-2008 06:33 AM

Besides, you never know what's going to happen here..maybe they'll try again!

fjetter 08-25-2008 06:50 AM

Andy stop reviving three year old threads full of doom and gloom. :eek:

andy171773 08-25-2008 06:53 AM

Haha, it's just threads that could be relevant now!

Noseeums 08-25-2008 07:04 AM

What a load of horse manure.

TurboDog 08-25-2008 07:15 AM

Interesting subject though. Delta comes to Comair and says pay cuts are needed, or they will give our airplanes to someone who can operate them cheaper. They can't afford to pay us what we were making. Then we accept the pay cuts and they turn around and give our aircraft to ASA and the like. Look at what ASA employee costs are compared to Comairs. Go figure. Not a stab at ASA, but just another blow from Delta

Boomer 08-25-2008 07:21 AM

Nice to see this glimpse into Comair's recent history...


Originally Posted by SWAjet (Post 87)
Be first to freeze, Comair pilots told

The Delta subsidiary says that, without mid-contract pay freezes from pilots and flight attendants, it cannot afford to buy up to 35 new jets that management says are needed to win business that is going to its competitors.

Even though Comair is owned by Delta Air Lines, Delta recently bypassed Cincinnati-based Comair and awarded a contract for regional flying to Chautauqua Airlines, a low-cost operator.

Comair will suffer if it continues to be bypassed, said analyst Ray Neidl of Calyon Securities in New York. "They won't go out of business, necessarily, but they'll have limited opportunities for growth," Neidl said.

Comair president Fred Buttrell has appealed to the unions by promising expanded business could mean creating hundreds of jobs for pilots, flight attendants and mechanics.


Originally Posted by fjetter (Post 449538)
Andy stop reviving three year old threads full of doom and gloom. :eek:

At the time we had 165 aircraft and 1850 pilots on the list.

Big Sky, Pinnacle, XJet, and Freedom/Mesa were not yet part of DCI.

The doom and gloom was if we voted down the freeze, but the freeze passed (61% to 39% IIRC) so what we have now is best case. Comair management is simply incapable of doing any better. Delta is incapable of keeping promises.

Since ALPA stepped up to help the company, we've lost/are losing around 50 planes and 650 pilots, give or take.

Hey Vage, tell me again how I can help out?

flyandive 08-25-2008 07:27 AM

Why Andy do you do this?! Resurrect old threads just to scare us. :)

andy171773 08-25-2008 07:41 PM

No scaring involved...it actually is kind of interesting..a then and now

what was promised..and where we are now...i think in this current environment...all pilots need to be privy to this kind of info. You NEVER know when mgmt will ask for more, and this is the kind of stuff that will make someone who's leaning towards voting "yes" to changing their vote to a resounding "no".

And it's funny to see people go OMG NO FREAKING WAY ARE YOU SERIOUS, DIDN'T WE JUST TAKE ONE LIKE 2 YEARS AGO?!??!?

The Chow 08-26-2008 04:29 AM

I hope this will be a good lesson for those of us who came on property after the cuts and freezes. Management is trying to get our union to agree to all sort of concessions using the same old argument today that was used back then. Well look at what we got then......Does anyone think it will be different this time around?


To my union representation: Don't give an inch. They already violate our contract by letter and spirit. I'd rather be on the street than see our work rules written by J.O. :mad:

Pantera 08-26-2008 04:42 AM


Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 449567)
Nice to see this glimpse into Comair's recent history...





At the time we had 165 aircraft and 1850 pilots on the list.

Big Sky, Pinnacle, XJet, and Freedom/Mesa were not yet part of DCI.

The doom and gloom was if we voted down the freeze, but the freeze passed (61% to 39% IIRC) so what we have now is best case. Comair management is simply incapable of doing any better. Delta is incapable of keeping promises.

Since ALPA stepped up to help the company, we've lost/are losing around 50 planes and 650 pilots, give or take.

Hey Vage, tell me again how I can help out?


Originally Posted by The Chow (Post 450130)
I hope this will be a good lesson for those of us who came on property after the cuts and freezes. Management is trying to get our union to agree to all sort of concessions using the same old argument today that was used back then. Well look at what we got then......Does anyone think it will be different this time around?


To my union representation: Don't give an inch. They already violate our contract by letter and spirit. I'd rather be on the street than see our work rules written by J.O. :mad:

You are very right. And all the pilots that came on the property after the freeze and the promises that have been given to us by management so take note. I for one will not ever vote to take a freeze or a paycut. Sorry Delta raise the ticket price to offset the cost of my pathetic wage.

I for one am counting down the days until the current contract is up and the wrath of the pilot group starts the new negotiations.

andy171773 01-14-2010 06:13 AM

Omggggggggggggggg

H46Bubba 01-14-2010 06:37 AM

What's up with the necroposting?????:D

cyrcadian 01-14-2010 06:42 AM

You can always tell when Andy is having a slow morning.

TurboDog 01-14-2010 06:42 AM

Why do you resurrect this thread every year?

evilboy 01-14-2010 06:46 AM

My friends from Comair, VOTE NO ON A PAY FREEZE.
I'm a furlough from 11/08. I understand that voting no would mean a much longer furlough period. I DON'T CARE. Do not sacrifice your financial well being, nor your family's comfort on a very long shot of a possibility. There will be no guarantee at all if you were to pass a pay freeze, of any growth at all. All that's going to do is increase their profit margin.
People like me will survive, maybe even go to other airlines/places. Do not drink their cool-aid in the hopes/dreams that it may help the furloughs.
Actually a revision to my statement, here are a few suggestion to a pay freeze I'd find acceptable: freeze the pay of the top 5-10 % most senior pilots (but increase everyone else's), and stop/cancel any and all "performance" incentives/bonuses to all management teams -salary should be enough for them-.
Thank you!.

Diver Driver 01-14-2010 06:50 AM

Nice play Andy. Mesa sucks..... Oh wait... this isn't FlightInfo.

flycrj200 01-14-2010 07:17 AM


Originally Posted by evilboy (Post 744021)
My friends from Comair, VOTE NO ON A PAY FREEZE.
I'm a furlough from 11/08. I understand that voting no would mean a much longer furlough period. I DON'T CARE. Do not sacrifice your financial well being, nor your family's comfort on a very long shot of a possibility. There will be no guarantee at all if you were to pass a pay freeze, of any growth at all. All that's going to do is increase their profit margin.
People like me will survive, maybe even go to other airlines/places. Do not drink their cool-aid in the hopes/dreams that it may help the furloughs.
Actually a revision to my statement, here are a few suggestion to a pay freeze I'd find acceptable: freeze the pay of the top 5-10 % most senior pilots (but increase everyone else's), and stop/cancel any and all "performance" incentives/bonuses to all management teams -salary should be enough for them-.
Thank you!.

This is from 2005

vagabond 01-14-2010 07:19 AM

Mod Note:

Yeah, time to say goodbye to this venerable thread. The original poster would have been so proud of its continued resurrection and interest.


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