Unions
 

Im sorry but Im a pilot and a HATE and Ill say again, I HATE UNIONS. They suck the F'n life out of every company. And if the truth is known, they are the reason the airlines are suffering so badly. But I must join it because I must and will keep my mouth shut about them while in the cockpit.

uh......this is going to get good.

So can we count on you for the hotel or strike committee?

i'll just sit back and wait this one out

Management is going to love you. You might be fast-tracked into a CP position!

One word... Wow.

"if you build it, they will come"

It's fixing to get real interesting I can feel it

Another BlowJets tool, I guess there is that many idiots in our industry...

Ellen, is that you???

Nope, it's d'angelo. I hate that guy. Go away man.

Your party lost today, get over it.

Anywho....you're wrong about having to join. You can chose to be a non-member, although you still have to pay dues in an agency shop. Because of your high moral objections, I suggest being a non-member would suit you just fine.

Why would you post something like that?

You don't seem to want to change anyone else mind...? Why should anyone care what you think.

Didn't plan on contributing to the flamebait, but I can't resist.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you work for a union 121 carrier. There are no unions in 91/135 flying. 91K, now thats another story...

people are really missing the point about what a union does for us. the problems are not caused by unions, the problems are caused by lack of unity across unions. since each union for each airline has slightly different goals, you have unequal effects. dont blame unions, you need the piece of mind and protection, trust me.

yes, because management of airlines are such sterling performers.

like taking your$1bn profit and trying to buy an airline that's $500m in the hole (and a direct competitor to boot) and then giving up after blowing through that profit.

or letting a regional strong-arm you into buying them, just in time to suffer from them striking.

by the way, unions have brought you:

weekends
safe working conditions
40hr work weeks
overtime pay
health care
a standard of service/product
a decent living


there are reasons that the middle class started to appear in the late 1800s. unions arose that started taking care of their own and keeping the bosses from using them just like any other maching in the shop.

Go work for an NON Union corporation.

Since you dispise Unions so much why don't you go work for Walmart? Now there is a sterling NON-union Mega corporation. They have great pay and benefits.......NOT...well, at least you don't have to pay for the Blue Vest and your :) sticker.(Actually it is payroll deducted over 3 months) They have such great working conditions over there and treat their employees so well.
Wake up son, UNIONS created the Middle class in America. If you read the papers, the Middle class is shrinking at an alarming rate as many former good paying American jobs (with health & retirement) benefits are outsourced to Slave Labor abroad and South of the Border.

Since you don't like UNIONS (and you are a Pilot) if I were you I would never ever apply to;
ALaska Air
Continenal Airlines
FedEx
Southwest Airlines (the most heavily Unionized Airline)
UPS

Please tell us who you work for and how long you have been a professional pilot.

PS. I hear Virgin is accepting applications. Get a job with them and try to live in the SFO Bay area on the slave wages they intend to pay.

Don't forget AA who is in negotiations with their pilots. Or at least they are starting early this time around.

I didn't mean Forget or to slight AA or DAL or NWA or USAirways or anyone else for that matter.
I just used the carriers who are currently hiring.........My Bad:)

no worries

I USED to agree with you
 

Let me say that as someone with a degree in Economics and a strong business background, that I USED to agree with your sentiments. I have always felt that unions simply served to protect the lazy and incompetent. My perception was that all the unions did was drive up labor costs and make it impossible to navigate the stringent rules when someone truly deserved to be fired/reprimanded.

That USED to be my stance. Now, as a pilot for a non-union regional. I have to say that if we had a union vote, I'd probably vote in favor of the union.

Being at a non-union carrier, let me tell you the differences that I notice from my friends at union shops:

1) we are regularly scheduled for stand-up overnights, flying home on less than 4 hours of sleep.

2) We aren't paid per diem for those overnights, even though we still spend the night and have to come up with food out of our pockets.

3) 10 leg 14 hour duty days with 15 minute turns ALL DAY with no scheduled breaks (When are you supposed to eat or use the restroom? Food and anything other than water in the cockpit is against co. policy).

4) Our pay is significantly less than union carriers flying the same equipment.

5) No professional standards committee to go to if you're put in the cockpit with someone who blatantly violates co. rules or even the FARS. Try reporting them and sometimes you're rewarded by nothing happening to them and it being publicly known that you're the "snitch." Imagine what the does for your life in the crew room and you'll understand why NOONE ever reports anything for fear of reprisal.

6) Captains being told to fly airplanes with issues they don't feel comfortable flying and threatened with their job if they refuse with no union lawyers or rules to protect them. Let something go wrong on that same flight and the FAA will have no sympathy on that captain for his flying anyway under duress. Yet, how many of you are willing to quit your job in such a situation?

I could go on, but let's just say that the work rules and safety suffer at an airline without union protection behind the pilots. I'm not a union fan in all jobs/circumstances, but I can say without a doubt that I can see the value that they provide for safety in the airline environment. Pay is one thing. We all know what we're getting paid at an airline before we start and can make a decision whether or not to work for said pay. But the added safety and the protection you get from being wrongfully terminated for making a stance on safety issues are extremely valuable assets that you receive in exchange for your union dues.

JM2CW,
Str8nlvl

If the 1979 in your name in anyway implies your age, you have alot to learn about this industry and your career D'angelo, er, I mean CR1979.

What happened? Did you screw something up that was so blatent that your union wasn't able to help you out? You know, like call in sick and then non-rev to Hawaii on a work day, or try to sit airport standby from home? You tried to have your union save you and they couldn't because you so obviously screwed up and thought you were immune?

Go read Flying the Line I and II and then get back to us.

Comments deleted...


-LAFF

You can thank UNIONS for scope! Without, you would be flying a 767 for 50 seat rj pay or less. And no major to move on too cause they would all be outsourced.

True. The concept of a union in the airline business is not a bad thing, the problem is that the actual implementation in today's environment leaves a lot to be desired.

Those wishing for a union at SKYW should be happy that they don't have to deal with the problems you do. Sorry that you have to go throuh this. At least SKYW has a bit of professional attitude.

Unions in the airline business are not the cause of the problems. That is what management would like you to believe.

Safety is enhanced because the company cannot 'push the envelope' with a union watchdog.

Airlines are making plenty of money but creative accounting prevents any of it from trickling down. Ask management about their bonuses.

Believe me, I have seen some things and I know that the unions are NOT the problem in this business. They are not perfect, to be sure, but the are very important if for no other reason than safety.

without unions we wouldnt have TCAS, which has saved me and my crew dozens of times

Go back to your JR MGT (GoFur) cubicle and lick your Young Republican League wounds! Unions created the Middle class in this great country.:)