The cost of work
 

I got curious so I did a breakdown of the direct cost of my job. I live in base and I am on reserve.

Here is the breakdown.

Average days at home (H): 16.8 per month
Average days at work (W): 13.2 per month
Average time I get activated (A): 6 times a month
Round trip cost to go to work (C): $16.50
Amount I tip van driver (T): $1.00 per ride
Average uniform upkeep (U): $5.00 per trip
Average amount I spend on food at home (FH): $300.00 per month
Average amount of food I spend for work (FW): $250.00 per month

The formula:

(A x C)+(A x U)+((((W/A)-1) x (2 x T)) x A)+(FW – ((FH/H)) x w)) = The cost of work

For me that comes out to $158.00 a month

I use public transportation to go to work and try to spend as little as possible on the road so I bring most of my food.

How much do you spend to work? If you have crash pad, simply add your crashpad rent.

W = F x D

Measured in joules.

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :d

W+t+f= W T F?

me pilot, me fly planes.

I get annoyed when I think about how much I spend on getting to and from work and what I have to spend at work.... BUT

When you think of what other people spend it's not bad. Gas to go to work daily, having to have an entire wardrobe of work clothes not just 1 uniform, parking if you work downtown..... that all adds up to quite a bit.

Either way I'm cheap I hate spending any money at all... ever.

Lets not boost his ego here. Congratulations, you passed your math test! Now maybe you can figure out how much less you will make as a pilot then if you had become an engineer.

About 30-40 grand behind them for the first 5 years of your careers, then it gets a bit better. Last ten years you might even make more than 40 grand more.

Yes. This is an attempt to show off that I can punch numbers in Excel :rolleyes:. To counter your engineering career point, I actually started school as an engineering major, but I found I could get out of school sooner with less debt and get a job flying quicker if I went the airline route.

Contrary to what pilots think, other industries suck too. What I am trying to figure out is how much of our small paychecks go towards paying for work. I hope this will make people analyze their pay more so when it comes time to vote on a contract they look beyond simply just the hourly rate.

Cool. For food I've now resorted to bringing large Tupperware tubs full of protein powder and mass gainer. Cheaper than food and doesn't go bad. Lol

5 year upgrades for everyone, it's chrismas!!!

Only 10 years to Captain at a Major!! SWEET!

I got out of airlines, but my buddies that have been in for 10 years are nowhere near out-earning engineers, haha. Engineers can get on with big "majors" right out of school, increasing their stability, earning, benefits, etc. It's not even close.

That is brilliant. Sometime real world experience is more valuable then a proper education. Going to grab some protein next time I go to the grocery store. THANKS!

The real issue is how much of your own real value of work..... you don't keep...

Straight from the communist manifesto?

You totally buff?

http://www.driven2divide.com/wp-cont...cartoon_t.jpeg

BEEFCAKE!!!

When negotiating contracts, maybe this is something that should be considered. Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and at 40 hours a week a pay of $15,080 a year ($7.25 X 40 hours = $290 a week X 52 weeks = $15,080). With a monthly garuntee of 75 hours, a pilot would need to make $16.76 an hour first year wages to equal a minimum wage income ($15,080 / 12 months = $1,256.67 monthly / 75 hour garuntee = $16.76 hourly).

In addition, the average first year regional f/o has his debt bills to pay for the training that he recieved to acquire his certificates to work for said regional. Whether or not the student financed his training, this is indeed a bill that we have all paid to become a regional f/o. ATP currently advertises zero to hero for $59,990, Sallie Mae says their average private loans return an interest rate of 10.79%. Running these numbers through a loan calculator over a period of 10 years, I'd have to guess the "average" pilot debt bill is $817.90 a month. This is only the best guess I can make given the numbers I see.

So a monthly payment of $817.90 divided by a 75 hour garuntee means $10.90 of the working hour is spent on student loans for a pilot. If "minimum wage at 40 hours a week" is $16.76 an hour for a pilot, then the debt to become a pilot added in gives us a new number of $27.66. This is what a new first year first officer must make in order to afford his student loans and to maintain a minimum wage lifestyle. Maybe that can be used as a way for people to analyze their pay during contract negotiations.

I don't spend any money for food at work. I get per diem for that. I spend about $20 round trip in gas and tolls to get to the airport. That's about $80 per month. Probably a lot less than most jobs. Every once in a while I need to buy a $42 hotel room since I don't have a crashpad. That happens about 3 times per year.

No, I just think my labor and it's worth should be owned by me. And a percentage of it not go to others who have not earned it. So the next question, did the CEO earn the percentage he took from my labor?

Or said differently, should I be able to, at a minimum, determine the terms in which my labor is used in exchange for value?

Even slaves have the choice to quit.

Wow, well, talk about giving capitalism a slap in the face...

If it bothers you that it costs money to go to work and make money, then quit spending the money to go to work.. you'll find really fast that we earn much more than it costs us to go make it. An investor can invest millions and may win or lose it all, you have to spend $150 a month to get to work to make whatever wage you will make, sounds like a decent investment to me. Beats not going to work and not making anything at all.

Did the CEO (and executive board) earn the percentage he took from your labor? Well, lets see, the executive board in aviation must negotiate airplane leases/ purchases, must negotiate purchase of other equipment. They must also set a ticket price that will allow them to fill the planes but also make enough to pay you and other costs. They are also responsible for advertising the company, setting route structure and changing the direction of the company in an ever changing market. Frankly, if there was no CEO who took nothing from your labor, there would be no labor for you to earn anything from. Do executives take more than they are owed? Perhaps thats up for debate, but are executives owed some share from my labor? Yes, I do believe so.

Should you, at a minimum, be allowed to determine the terms your labor is used? Thats called "right to work". In a union world, your work contract is negotiated between the company and your union. In the non-union world, your worth is set in part by your demands and in part by the market forces that determine your worth.

Even slaves have a right to quit? In a historical context, I thought slaves were property that was owned and traded, and refusal to work was punishable by death? But yea, I suppose today they'd have a right to quit, but that goes along with right to work laws.

So if not capitalsim, what system do you propose better for the people?

How about an iron first mauling in the face. Most Americans are conditioned to believe that capitalism is righteous and better than anything else out there.... which is far from the truth. Capitalism sells lies, makes it worse, then sells the cure...

If the last 5 years has not been an indictment on Capitalism, and with a cyclical understanding of American History with the same conditions every 80 years, then what else does one need to know that the current form of Capitalism is a farce.

Capitalism isn't even capitalism.

I didn't question the cost of going to work or even the cost of being qualified to work. Rather I stated instead of concerning ones self with such cost, rather the real issue is how much less we actually receive for the amount of value created. I believe capitalism generally takes 50% or more of someone's work value.

You have started with the premise that CEO's and the exec team by default already control the terms. Which they do, but I am raising the question why..... radical perhaps, but why do we just assume it has always been this way or should be this way?

Disagree. Right to work means you do not determine the terms... you are simply a wage slave. The choice is quit or continue to work. If you quit (or flee), like a 19th Century plantation slave, there are consequences albeit much different. But those are the only two choices. Your worth is determined by what management decides to pay you within the realm of supply and demand. Unions get wages on the high side. Right to work... on the low side of supply and demand.

But even with union labor... a person doesn't truly own their work. Lack of ownership is lack of control....



At my last job, at the end of the FY, workers would be shuffled from one govt contractor to the next, resetting their longevity, losing earned vacation, sick, etc. They'd walk the halls, totally screwed, yet muttering "I am just happy to have a job....." Perverted in a way actually... they have no control... either accept new terms or quit. No determining the terms.

Propose a system in which people determine the terms in which they live their lives, including the work place, not a political or economic elite. Not sure that has ever been done and perhaps too utopic. However, nothing wrong with calling BS on the status quo.......

Settle down Marx.

just keep showing up for work.... one day, if you're lucky... you'll be a millionaire just like them.... arbeit macht frei........ then again... you can just quit if you want.....

Wow, seems as if we have a socialist in our midst. I suggest you leave, you are not wanted here.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FTmu6jAwA8...E_FOR_THAT.gif

Can't believe nobody has posted this yet...

Haha nope, not buff, but lean and muscular. Unlike most people I fly with that are fat and believe they can shove anything and everything into their bodies with no adverse consequences.

Next time you get curious go check out a brothel or something. Your killing me Rain man.

No offense but you have made a grave intellectual error. Slaves DO NOT have the choice to quit. This is entirely what being a slave means.

If you engauge in a voluntary exchange of your labour with your "CEO" your "CEO" can keep whatever he wants. That is because he has a higher risk value than you have, he is your boss. That is why he is the CEO and you are the employee. If you decide that is unfair and you are not getting paid enough than quit. Because you are not a slave means that you can do so and go find employment somewhere else.

Or take a risk and start your own business and be the CEO.

The limitation on how much or little you can pay your employees is dictated by competition in the labor workforce for wages. Employees drive prices up and bosses drive them down. In a free society with a limited government both are winners in their own ways dictated by their risk/reward ratio they CHOOSE to have.

Of course they can quit. Many did by fleeing... Underground Railroad, etc.... Slave means you receive no compensation for work and you are bonded. There are always choices in life.

That is why the term wage slave hits home. Like a slave, we are wage slaves in that we can quit working but the consequences are worse. Yet the status quo is still bad.

There is no reason why CEO and worker cannot share the risk and reward. Except for greed maybe... That is the premise of my discussion.

Not everyone can be, wants to be or should be a CEO.... Some people want to work 40h and spend time elsewhere. They should be able to do that while determining the terms....

By law CEO's and their BODs are beholden only to shareholders. That is why we see such disregard for workers, communities and environment.... however, if the law obligated a CEO to stakeholders... there might not be as much profit or excessive wealth for CEOs, but the Nation would be a better place.....

I believe the correct quote is "Lighten up, Marx"

http://firedaily.com/files/2012/01/l...up-francis.jpg

Their is no reasoning with such a viewpoint. It would seem like 100 years of history would have proved it. I find it ironic that the naysayers have the capitalistic system to thank for the fact that they can speak freely on the internet, or for that matter even afford an internet but yet bash it down around every corner not even seeing that it gave them everything they have today.

HOW do you get over 16 days off a month!?!? Holy KeeeeRIST! No crashpad? No commuting?

edit: nevermind, I see you are on reserve. me read good.

Capitalism: you indict it as if it is a murderer. Yet when you say the last 5 years are proof capitalism is a failure, I'd have to ask you who has fared better? socialist europe (see greece, spain, italy)? communist cuba? Who finances our debt, the communist or the capitalist wing of China? Truthfully, capitalism has fared these last 5 better than any other form of government.

capitalism takes 50% of ones work value? what is ones work value? is that an answer driven my market forces, aka capitalism? in pure socialism, there is no work value, the pilot makes as much as the garbage man makes as much as the lawyer.

You suggest right to work is worse for the employee than a union state. I've lived in a right to work state and the airline I now work for is union. This being my first union job, I make less now than any job I have ever had before, ever. In my terrible right to work state, even at 15 years old I made minimum wage $5.15 an hour plus tips. After tips, I still think I made more than then now as a union airline pilot. And the union that represents us is currently play the NMB and negotiations game. In right to work conditions we probably would have been able to strike long ago without waiting for the blessing of the NMB. This means we would have gotten a much better work contract long ago.

But thats the difference between a fair market vs. when the government gets involved. I would contend that capitalism has done more for the middle class, the poor, the advancement of technology and society than any other form of government has. Capitalism is what has created the modern middle class, and capitalism has given more power to the people from the elite than any other form of government has.

To the rest of you, sorry this is so long...

Interested in your view of the last 100 years...

Capitalism isn't democracy. There are many communist states that have capitalism..... they don't have freedom... material acquisition isn't freedom... market choice isn't freedom...

Capitalism isn't govt. Capitalism is a market system, not a governance system... Reconcile a Capitalist market system in communist China or Vietnam.

I never called for socialism... you are just conditioned to respond to criticism of capitalism as support for socialism. Why is that?

How can you strike in a right to work state? Your union job gives you other benefits that you wouldn't have as a right to work employee. Perhaps they are not of value to you. One of them is indirect, and possible direct, participation in the political process. If you can't participate in the political process, then you are more like a plantation slave.... you can't determine the terms, you can just quit (flee).

The modern middle class was created in the 1950s when union membership was 30% and taxes on excessive wealth was over 90%.. this during a GOP Admin. This middle class has been in decline with real wages, while CEO pay has increased, since 1970s. Like I said, looks like history begins for many during the Reagan Admin...

no worries....

So, anyone get more than $158:rolleyes:

Nope. Gotta use multiplication.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/32325472.jpg

Well, to be fair, your union is powerless because of the RLA, the airline jobs are definitely one of the "exceptions" to how things should work...