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-   -   Majors taking back flying? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/71903-majors-taking-back-flying.html)

rickair7777 12-22-2012 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1317017)
So you're saying SkyWest management was simply going to accept 66 50 seaters to be parked with nothing in return?


I don't think I said that? They would not of course accept voluntary cuts before their contract ran out.

johnso29 12-22-2012 07:41 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1317019)
Not until their contract ran out.

And when was that? Tons of those CRJ100/200's were due millions in engine overhauls before the contracts expired. If DAL management dumped millions into those CRJ's, do you think they'd just park them as soon as the contract was up? There absolutely MUST be a return on the investment. Therefore, they would've continued to fly them.

rickair7777 12-22-2012 07:43 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1317022)
And when was that? Tons of those CRJ100/200's were due millions in engine overhauls before the contracts expired.

2015-2020 time frame. I don't think SKW has a an engine overhaul problem, and they could afford to do overhauls even if they did.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I was saying?

johnso29 12-22-2012 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1317023)
2015-2020 time frame. I don't think SKW has a an engine overhaul problem, and they could afford to do overhauls even if they did.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I was saying?

Your claim is that Delta pilots didn't score a scope victory. I disagree. Your claim that management was simply going to park the 50 seaters anyway is pure conjecture. Delta had contracts to honor, including paying for engine overhauls on many of the CRJ200's in the DCI fleet. If they spent said money, they would need to utilize those aircraft until they received a return on their investment.

pa28dakota 12-22-2012 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1316984)
In addition to Comair's remaining CRJ100/200 aircraft that were parked, Skywest has agreed to park 66 and subject to membership ratification of their TA Pinnacle will park 140 of them. That will leave less then 125 50 seaters in the DCI fleet when all is done.

That just on the Skywest side or is that going to be a split between SKW and the XJT side of things? Also, isnt SKW just putting those birds onto AE flying? I also thought 125 was the lower cap of 50 seaters for Delta...those numbers would make like you said less than 125. I only ask to see how bad the 'hurt' will be to the 'Skywest umbrella'.

What 12-22-2012 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by pa28dakota (Post 1317036)
That just on the Skywest side or is that going to be a split between SKW and the XJT side of things? Also, isnt SKW just putting those birds onto AE flying? I also thought 125 was the lower cap of 50 seaters for Delta...those numbers would make like you said less than 125. I only ask to see how bad the 'hurt' will be to the 'Skywest umbrella'.

20ish of the airplanes to feed AA the rest Delta is responsible for!

rickair7777 12-22-2012 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1317028)
Your claim is that Delta pilots didn't score a scope victory. I disagree. Your claim that management was simply going to park the 50 seaters anyway is pure conjecture. Delta had contracts to honor, including paying for engine overhauls on many of the CRJ200's in the DCI fleet. If they spent said money, they would need to utilize those aircraft until they received a return on their investment.

I suspect they never would get a return on that investment, good money after bad.

I'm sure you scored a victory in the sense that SKW won't be flying 777's to Istanbul, Even holding the line is note worthy in today's climate but I don't think management gave up much that didn't fit in with their fleet plans anyway.

I think they got rid of red ink (en-efficient 50's), which translates to a balance sheet gain. They were able to synchronize that with your contract, so they got two for the price of one...improved efficiency and got some negotiating capital to boot.

80ktsClamp 12-22-2012 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1317028)
Your claim is that Delta pilots didn't score a scope victory. I disagree. Your claim that management was simply going to park the 50 seaters anyway is pure conjecture. Delta had contracts to honor, including paying for engine overhauls on many of the CRJ200's in the DCI fleet. If they spent said money, they would need to utilize those aircraft until they received a return on their investment.

This is where we differ a bit... our TA moved up the parking of the 50 seaters by about 3 years. I'm not sure I buy that they would have paid all that money for the overhauls.

A victory, yes... but moderate.

johnso29 12-22-2012 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1317058)
I suspect they never would get a return on that investment, good money after bad.

I'm sure you scored a victory in the sense that SKW won't be flying 777's to Istanbul, Even holding the line is note worthy in today's climate but I don't think management gave up much that didn't fit in with their fleet plans anyway.

I think they got rid of red ink (en-efficient 50's), which translates to a balance sheet gain. They were able to synchronize that with your contract, so they got two for the price of one...improved efficiency and got some negotiating capital to boot.

You may be correct. I have little doubt the current Delta management team couldn't find a way to accelerate the retirements of the 50 seaters. But if they were just going to do it anyway, was it not beneficial to Delta pilots to get something for it?

Scoop 12-22-2012 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by Rotor2prop (Post 1316990)
Guys I hate to rain on the warm fuzzies but regional flying is growing not shrinking! The only thing that is shrinking is the number of pilots and aircraft.

Take DCI, yes they are shrinking the fleet of regional aircraft but there is an increase in total regional lift seats. That equals growth! Delta sells seats not airplanes so....

There is a nice write up on it over at JC in the airline section.

I guess I should also say that once you take into account the 717 seats at mainline the regionals are not really "growing" but they are not shrinking by any means.



R2P,

As was already pointed out DCI seats are actually decreasing, not increasing. But remember, Pilot jobs correlate directly with air-frames not with seats so airframes is still a very important metric no matter how you look at it.

Another important metric that you allude to is passengers (seats). When we signed this TA DCI was flying about 45% of our domestic passengers. When the 717s are up and running and the 50 seaters are reduced DCI will be flying about 35% of our domestic passengers.

To me that 45% down to 35% is the most important metric.

Scoop


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