When did 0.035 begin qualifying as drunk?

It always qualified as operating under the influence. The laws are written like they are to allow for flexibility. If they just wanted to use .04, they would have left out the other words and phrases. Look up DUI vs DWI.

I couldn't agree more. Most positions are strictly volunteer with no pay involved. I have been involved in the past although not currently and have often felt no appreciation for my time. If you feel strongly about the direction of the union, by all means get off the sidelines and get involved. If you just want to stand back and cast stones, you are in no way helping the effort, but just *****ing with nothing to back it up. Just my 2 cents.

There's nothing more I hate than someone pointing out that we're pilots when we're out at the bar.

Just turns that 4 day trip into 4 days from hell.


I am and will always be a Brazilian/Swedish systems analyst.

I tell people I'm a dolphin trainer at seaworld

There are three classes of people:

Those who drink occasionally, those who are drinkers who know how to drink, and those who are alcoholics.


The occasional drinkers are idiots who don't know how to drink or how it affects them.


The regular drinkers know when to say ” when”.

The alcoholics need help.... And sometimes help happens After they have been caught.

Alcoholics are addicts that need to seek help. The others are acting badly.

First off fair point on the hotel staff, however most of us see more layovers then we care to admit on a monthly basis. That said I gotta say never have I met a group more lacking in basic social skills then airline pilots. When I was a capt at a regional I had to constantly shut up or ditch the FO and FA as they moaned on and on about work gossip at some place like a Chili's by the airport hotel. Unfortunately a few times I heard the 22 year old with SJS brag to the bartender about his career status.

When I got to a legacy I learned that you can figure out quickly whether your CA is worth having a 2-5 beers with at a long layover. Most of the time I went out on my own and had a WAY better time. Incidents like the thread starter prove that our profession has a LONG way to go towards having any game.

That's a stupid statement. He made the news because he is an idiot, and he is giving the rest of us a bad name. If you stop drinking at 7pm like he claimed and still blow a .35 in the morning, you either have a hangover or you drink so much that you need help anyways. So he was going to operate a flight in this condition. It could be your family on his flight

HIMS cant help you when you show up to work and blow past your company legal limit. ymmv

Then the FAA needs to revise the regs:

"Alcohol concentration. No covered employee shall report for duty or remain on duty requiring the performance of safety-sensitive functions while having an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or greater. No certificate holder having actual knowledge that an employee has an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or greater shall permit the employee to perform or continue to perform safety-sensitive functions."

As far as the FAA is concerned, as long as he hadn't consumed alcohol within 8 hrs. and was not impaired, he could've quite legally hopped in his RJ and gone along on his merry way. My airline (owned by SkyWest) doesn't add to the FAA limit-- our FOM says 8hrs and .04 are the limits. While it is stupid and reckless to duty-in so close to the legal limit, this could have been a non-event if he had been employed by another carrier.

As a 22 year old RJ FO, I wouldn't like to say I'm a salesman for Pella Windows and Doors, and we are "here for the convention" OR I am a junior partner at Goldman Sachs and I work in emerging markets.

It makes me sick to see guys my age talking to people about how awesome they are for having a crappy RJ job. There are lots of young people in this country with far more impressive achievements, if you'd even call it that.

Now I'm going to go post a picture of clouds on Facebook with the caption "living the dream" or "best office in the world" BARF!

[QUOTE

It makes me sick to see guys my age talking to people about how awesome they are for having a crappy RJ job. There are lots of young people in this country with far more impressive achievements, if you'd even call it that.

Now I'm going to go post a picture of clouds on Facebook with the caption "living the dream" or "best office in the world" BARF![/QUOTE]

I agree with you. You know its going to be a long month when the F.O. asks you to take a picture of him in the cockpit for his facebook page. It seems that these kind of people are begging for someone to ask them what they do for a living when sitting at the bar.
Usually about that time, they say "I'm a pilot for United, American, U.S. Airaways," or whatever legacy carrier they feed.
Thats about the same time I suddenly remember that I have some important emails to send and head to my room.

A pilot in a bar is always guilty until proven innocent, especially since the "flight" movie.

Another case of C.Y.A. unfortunately.

Well said. I get sick of people accusing anyone who had one too many as diseased alcoholics who need immediate help.

Most of these cases are due to poor judgement and not knowing when to call it a night, not an addiction.

Hopefully this guy has learned a valuable lesson and gets another chance to prove himself. As previously mentioned, he didn't break the regs. Deffinately deserves a talking to though.

^ THAT. Don't be ******ing stupid people.

I highly recommend an app to track how many drinks you have had and how long until you will be sober.

Alcodroid App is good.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having pride in what we do for a living, and if people ask me what I do outside of work I will tell them honest answers (that I work for a crappy regional X that feeds major airline Y). That being said, on a layover for work is a completely different scenario. It changes the game completely especially when you have a beer in your hand. I find it best to avoid the subject at all costs. Not to mention you come off as a giant D bag to the rest of your crew when you brag about your 14 hr 5 leg duty day and you can still throw down like a rock star at the bar.

Again, outside of work then blab all you want. At work, just keep your mouth shut and seriously folks - if someone asks and you are too slow to think of an alter ego just say transportation or something.

At some carriers it's available up until breaking the threshold of the airplane.

HIMS most definitely can help you when you show up to work and blow past your company limit, that is exactly what it is for, to help those with an alcohol/drug problem. It may however not help you keep your job.

maybe i didn't convey my point clearly. 80kts is correct, in some cases, you can make it almost into the aircraft and still ask for hims and still maintain job protection. Legal or not, this pilot still can go through the program. My point was becuase he was caught, the company may still decide to punish or even terminate. i have no idea what the skywest rules are in this case.


the whole point of hims is to help you keep your job. my intent of the post was to say hims works when you disclose you have an sa issue prior to getting caught. it's like getting busted with an 8 ball in your pocket and then saying you have a coke habit. it is too late at that point. yes, hims will help the pilot either way, but the best outcome is to enters hims prior to an incident. you go through the program, surrender your medical certificate, and get it back under a special issuance once you complete in patient care and other steps. five years later, if you complete every meeting and step of the program, the faa removes the special issuance. hims is a highly regarded and effective sa program.

it is definately a slippery slope with company and faa regs reading different. I have sure as hell had my lapses in judgement over the years. I hope the outcome for this pilot is for the best.

I flew with a guy once who had an American Eagle ballcap that he broke out when drinking on an overnight (this was at mesa).

And for clarity re. SKW...

Less than .04 but .02 or greater (ie any detectable BAC) is a violation of company policy. Mandatory removal from duty, and almost certain disciplinary action. Termination is not mandatory but is certainly possible (perhaps even likely).

SKW has an 8 hour rule...you have more leeway to drink than many or most airlines but you're also responsible for managing it correctly.

SKW has a HIMS program and it is widely advertised and encouraged. If you submit to HIMS before getting caught, there is no penalty of any kind and you go out on disability while doing the program (at no cost). In this guy's case, he can still do HIMS but probably at his own expense since he got caught. He might still be fired but it will be a "suspended termination" pending completion of HIMS.

This of course brings up the usual questions about HIMS...it's intended to help folks with an addiction. But what about somebody who just exercised poor judgement once? Still eligible for HIMS? Should he be? Or should only the "professional boozers" be afforded the protections of HIMS, with no love for the amateurs?

I think an America West hat would would better in that situation ;)

A lot of 91 regs still apply to all operations.

.035!!!

Nitpicky? Maybe. All the difference in the world? Yep.

I thought we were accountants that time in GNV...

I wouldn't even say nitpicky. Regardless of his bac, he showed up to fly a jet smelling like Lindsay lohan. If you smell like booze enough that other people easily notice it what's it matter what your bac is? If I get in a jump seat and the pilots smell like they had bush mills and eggs for breakfast I'm not gonna give him a breathalyzer. Ima get off that plane.

What else is there to do in Bemidji??:D I jest,...I jest!!!
fbh

No matter if your Company sets 8/10/12 hours- you can't get sh*tfaced, stop at the cutoff time, and not blow positive the next morning.

C'mon rookies. Quit ruining it for the rest of us.

IDK why you guys are making SUCH a big deal about this. Didn't you guys watch "Flight" with Denzel Washington? He flew a plane upside down and three pointed it next to a church....

And that wasn't even the most unrealistic part. Did you see how hot that FA was he was nailing before hand?

RIGHT! I was sitting there saying "this is going to be awful"... BAM B**b first scene...

Really? An App for drinking???? Ohhh, goodie!!!! Now when I realize I've had too many and decide to walk home, the cops just need to look at my phone to give me a PI. :rolleyes:

Way back when it was legal to drink at 18, many of us got one of these in drivers ed:
http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/w.../BACCharts.gif
The ones we got actually fit in your wallet.

http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/w...centUPDATE.ASP

Here are the new fangled fancy ones:
BAC Card

[QUOTE=feltf4;1361479]RIGHT! I was sitting there saying "this is going to be awful"... BAM B**b first scene...

Stand Corrected.. Not the dude, Walter... (Big Lebowski)

I'll be the bald version of Vijay Mallya
Vijay Mallya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^^This^^^

One thing I've been amazed to learn by having one of those cheap little breathalyzers is that after a big night out (birthday, bachelor party, etc) followed by 12 hours off, you can still blow 0.08 (DWI limit for driving most places) and still feel perfectly fine.

*Yeah, yeah, I've heard those little things are not 100% accurate, but if it says you're blowing 0.08%, no doubt you shouldn't be flying or driving. When they're off they under-estimate your BAC*

An 8 hour cutoff is not much good if you've just had 10-12 drinks.

4-5 beers shouldn't cause a problem if you give yourself ample time, but if they are the more potent kinds (8% ABV or higher), 8 hours probably won't be enough time for it to clear your system.

When in doubt, don't go out. The one thing I'd fear is being in the boarding area and being asked by a pax, "Hey, didn't I see you at the hotel bar last night?" If you happened to be within your company's cutoff time, you could be in some hot-water if the individual escalates the matter. At this point, guilty till proven innocent............

Do yourself a favor and have 2 Hop Slams early into a 15 hour layover. You will be content and wake up feeling 100%. Don't have a 3rd.

Such a good beer.

Or Sierra Nevada Hoptimum will work too. Again, don't have a 3rd.

Irish Car bombs have killed a few.... One=your good, two= you're playing with fire, three= call a cab, your effed

Too many chicken wings...I could have been anything a chick wanted that night.

Beware the strong drinks: One isn't enough, two is too many, three isn't enough...

That is pretty close to an AA saying: One is too many, and a thousand is not enough.