Holding ASA and XJT MEC's accountable
 

How do we do it? The path leading the 4000 pilots of ExpressJet Airlines to the dysfunction that we live in now, rests squarely on the shoulders of our inept negotiating committees.

They (both sides) have failed to behave like adults and negotiate for the good of the pilot groups. Mud slinging, name calling, and mis-information has poisoned the negotitations to the point that I, and many of my peers are concerned for the future of this company.

I'm not blaming any one person or any one side. Both need to be held accountable to their pilot groups, and we need good people who actually have our best interests at heart. Unfortunately due to egos and greed, I have serious doubts that this can be accomplished with those currently at the helm of our NC's.

What can be done?

How many more threads do we need, but 100% agree with you. I honestly don't care which parts of each side of the contract I get I just want to have it done.

Record all negotiating sessions. All videos kept secure. Unedited. At anytime, any pilot from either side can come into the office and watch them.

Quit hiding behind confidentiality agreements, no more he said she said, no more secret negotiations in other cities


If PBS systems are the real hold up...lets run them side by side and vote. I personally think that is silly. I think we have a working, well known, proven system that the pilot group is overall happy with. I think we will waste a lot of money on programming, education, training, etc for a system that has a lot of unknowns for very little potential improvements. The only real arguments I have heard for the new system is the live bidding. Which is truly worthless until everyone above you has placed their bid. I think the only real way to have an idea of what you can hold comes with experience and a track record of what people above you are bidding.

It does seem it turned into a ****ing contest. But if it is truly that big of an issue...I am not so married to our system that I would refuse to look at something else. And if after a fair comparison, fair testing, and a pilot vote...if the majority wants the other system...lets buy it and roll on

Im with you. I dont give a crap any more, lets move on. I'd be fine with what you guys have, just more refined, and better reserve rules or something.

Recall the MECs and then start a decertification drive. Worked for US Airways! ;)

How about you and the MECs do some growing up. That would be much easier.

First, I'm not on an MEC. Second, ironic you call me immature while you change my name and tell me off. Third, I'm not the problem in this "merger". Looks like you're the one who needs to grow up.

How about we put forth a vote to all asa pilots asking if they would prefer a line bidding system or what they have now? Actually, how about asking all xjt pilots...

Line bidding isnt even an option

There's no need. The ASA MEC has several years of polling shoring overwhelming support (90%) for our current PBS system. The Expressjet MEC has polling showing overwhelming support against any PBS system.

Correct. Stated by management.

No need to vote amongst all the Xjet pilots?

I'm pretty sure there is sir.

What I meant was... If we can get a real solid poll out now.. today. and then using that CURRENT result, go into combined negotiations. Have each mec swear to negotiate whatever result the poll shows the combined pilot group wants. Regardless of previous stance.

This is why we're our own worst enemy. Stop the infighting and finger pointing. Let's look for real solutions!

Agreed. If they can put simple polls on xjet.com why can't our union put one out to the 2 pilot groups? Heaven forbid they negotiate for what we want.

The reason why that won't happen is because ALPA doesn't care what the rank and file think. They know what's best for you, far better than you do. And there's some truth to it. Often, pilot groups underestimate their own negotiating power and settle far too easily, when they could have gotten a better deal. So of course, management uses these polls to their advantage. Part of why ASA contract 2007 took so long is that the MEC refused to put it out for vote earlier that year, because it wasn't good enough, but they knew the pilots would ratify it. management was pushing them hard to put it out for vote. The MEC wisely refused, and got a much better deal later.

^^ Well, that was my idea for a solution.. What's your'es?

You need a problem before you go searching for a solution. Just because management said we need to pursue a merger doesn't make it so. My solution is to maintain the status quo for both sides... separately. Then vote with our feet when new opportunities arise.

I agree whole heartedly...I seek to end divisive rhetoric....Captain Tony needs to pipe down.

Tony...That's not a real solution. There are great benefits of a successful merger for both pilot groups and the company as well. It would be silly for us to not work toward one pilot group.

One problem is that the MECs become detached from the pilot groups. The negotiations quickly turn to ****ing match with the only interest is winning the battle and the desires of the pilot group falls by the wayside.

Maybe another option could be to increase the number of members of negotiating group. Why do we have a such a small group representing such a large number of pilots. More members could equal a more fair representation of the pilot group. Then a 2/3 majority wins the issue and we move on

Just trying to think of solutions....

In all fairness, mgmt also said Flightline as it stands currently is never going to be in a JCBA.

Term limits, required line currency, and greater transparency (pay, expenditures) would be nice. I'd like to see some of PA's (ATL captain rep) ideas implemented, but I have no idea what the process is like.

Oh yeah... I'm the problem here... scapegoat much? :rolleyes:

Really? What possible solution exists now that we would have no choice but to take concessions in order to obtain a JCBA? The XJT MEC took all of those non pay issues to the arbitrator just to undermine our negotiating position. You are right in that they just want to "win". Both MECs are no different than the idiots in Congress. But now that the company is holding an award for a CRJ-900 rate $2-$10 less, dual qual, and non seat based pay, do you think they're going to turn around and say "just kidding!"? We either accept that deal, or the company keeps us separate and slowly shuts down the ASA side. I prefer the latter.

Give it a rest Joe. You're like the college freshman who still attends the high school prom just because he can't let go.

And what you said isn't even really true. Management had previously said they hated vacation low, but other than that, didn't care what PBS system we used as long as it fit the cost parameters. Then McK showed Courtney H how much money SmartPref could save her by constraining the line values, and the company was sold. Another hand grenade he lobbed into these "negotiations".

I like this. Required line currency would maybe keep the office guys a little more grounded, and in touch with what we deal with on a daily basis.

Greater transparency on expenditures would also be nice. It would really be interesting to see where some of our 2% goes. I know we have a right to see for ourselves where this money is going. There is actually a group of Amereican Eagle pilots auditing their own union reps, and finding some interesting things. I think this needs to be done here also. It's our money, we have every right to see how it's being spent.

All in all this stuff takes time and know how. Like you I have no idea what the process is like, which is part of the problem.

It's not $2-10 less. Yes, the rate may be but total compensation is not.

This would be fine IF we would be able to keep the compensation that XJT group has right now. Now I don't claim to know even 1% of what you or Tony know but we all know that management will drive to lower the compensation that XJT has in their contract for our new one. So ultimately, this is all moot till we know the final language in our JCBA.