Bollocks. People don't make the choice to commute when they live in SoCal, where their wives work and their kids go to school, then they get based in Detroit, or Newark.
Someone like that deserves a bit of help getting back home to said kids and wives after a 4 day, or 5 days of reserve in a crash pad, and the last thing they need is a d-bag attitude like yours.

Sorry but commuters don't deserve to be treated "special". Yes it is a choice. When one gets hired you are told what the bases are. Lots of people have to move for jobs, that is what we call life. Pilots have every right to commute but I have absolutely zero sympathy when they whine about said commute. If a guy from LA knowingly takes a job in DTW or EWR then he can either move of deal with the drama that comes with commuting.

That would be a valid point if bases never closed, upgrades occurred in base and airlines were at least worker neutral instead of against us. That being said, yes those of us who commute still do so as a choice. I accept the drama and I don't ask that you alleviate it, just please don't add to it.

Do we make accommodations for people in every day life when we don't have to? Some do and some don't.

If people didn't chase jobs with such reckless abandon then maybe the airlines would be forced to improve the situation. By this I mean they would pay for you too move. The conditions at the airlines will continue to deteriorate if passion for flying outweighs any negative working condition. I would also outlaw long commutes. Too many pilots are irresponsible and start their day tired do to long commutes. If you can responsibly make a long commute work on your own then you should have the integrity to move or find a different job. Don't complain about the pay after you already accepted the job.

It wasn't exactly you delaying the flight then. Was it.

Do you sign the log can too?

What you consider as "special treatment", others may consider "professional courtesy".

Had a jumpseater last week. Left house at 4 AM drove 3 hours to DFW. 4 hours in JS then had a trip to LHR that night. Insane

This thread still going?

In his defense, he got a good 7 hours shuteye enroute...gasp!

When I first got my job I lived at base. Then after a few years I was moved to another base. I SOLD MY HOUSE AND UPROOTED MY FAMILY. Then after about 8 months I was moved back and downgraded. I no longer had my house to go back to and I was not about to buy another one on the chance I was going to get jerked around again. I decided at that point I needed to put my family back close to the rest of my family and live where I had roots. I tried to do it their way, but it didn't work. Your comment is one of an insensitive jerk with his head in the sand. It happens at the majors too idiot.

So we can assume from your viewpoint that you don't own a home, don't, or never have commuted, aren't married, and don't have kids. I bet your on time performance is stellar though. Well done! (SARCASM!)

I hope one night you are stuck in the terminal, watching the last flight home push back with empty seats on it as the captain shrugs his shoulders at you through the window.

I think he meant I as in WE. I do it sometimes myself.

If you find yourself in difficult circumstances. FIX IT. Don't expect everyone else to give you special treatment. I am not advocating denying someone help who is in need but it shouldn't become the new norm. If you get uprooted because of base closure or another situation that requires you to have to move then make your choice. Seek employment elsewhere or move. Don't stay where you are and then make your commute everyone else's problem. Don't commute in a way you show up too work unfit.

Only a GoJet'er would make this comment....

@ OO both Captain and First officer sign "the can"

[QUOTE=vilcas;1419131]If you find yourself in difficult circumstances. FIX IT. QUOTE]

And how do you propose you FIX IT when you are based 1,500 miles away from home? Buy a ticket to and from work with your $20,000 a year salary?

No one is asking for "special treatment" here. Just a little help from the people who can make it happen.

LOL. Ok...

Only a skywest FO would have a false sense of authority.

Ultralight, thank you.

I cant believe what I am reading. ARE YOU PEOPLE SERIOUS?!?! We have kids, wives, families, houses, and sometimes don't have the apparent luxury that you do to not commute!!! my gosh. I really hope you try to get on one of my flights.... i'll be sure to push early.

Us commuters STICK TOGETHER because of insensitive people like you...we as AN INDUSTRY need to stick together for improvements to be made. but obviously, you don't care about everyone. you only care about you. youre probably the type to vote "no" on a contract based on how it affects your life and 110% your life only.

About the comment of being tired and commuting in late.... if you only have 2 off days and your daughters birthday is on one of those two, you arnt going to just stay in your crashpad and eat more chef Boyardee. you are going to go home... as a result, yes, sometimes its tough commuting but we do it.

Thank you to any crew who has helped me on my commute to or from work, it means more than anything to be able to block in and run home.

Before anyone makes a snide commuter remark again, please remember...how the hell does this affect you? its a simple walk to the top of the jetbridge, or knowing someone is trying to get on and doing what you can to help them out. just cause youre lucky enough to have never been furloughed twice, forced out of domicile involuntarily with a family, and left with commuting as your only option..... squawk 7600.

Please please take mercy on us 50 seat drivers... Who make more than you.

Not an OO pilot either..

Pretty clever there ol' sport.

That last response wasn't for you. Try reading slower.

FOs by you make 70 an hour?

When I lived at my base I always tried to help commuters. Then, suddenly I became a commuter after 4 years. I guess LD would have me quit my job and find another one at the place where my airline last dumped me off...oh, but wait...there weren't any flying jobs there! And why should I have to START ALL OVER AGAIN at the bottom when I am allowed the option of commuting when I am not at the mercy of a tight a$$ed captain or a gate agent who is having a bad day? LD, you must be a real pleasure to work with.

I understand you have the right to commute, and I always do anything I can to get anyone on, within reason. I simply get tired of hearing people whine about their commute when they choose to do it. No you didn't have to start all over but you did have the choice to move. I am sorry if you have been left behind on your commutes but sometimes it happens. It doesn't happen to me often but nothing irks me more when an FO commutes in on a red-eye, is basically worthless for the day, then cries all day about being sooo tired because he/she was too cheap to come in the day before and get a hotel.

All I am saying is commuters are probably one of the whiniest bunch of people I have ever come across in my life. Many people in my family have had to move 4+ times over their career because their job changed. It sucks but there are no guarantees in life. All I ask is that commuters quit being babies about something they choose to do to themselves. I swear some commuters are into self harm or something with some of the commutes I have seen people try and do. I will admit I have been lucky, however, my significant other knows and understands that I will move if need be. We don't plan on having kids so that does make things a bit easier. Honestly all you guys have to do is tell your wives commuting is not allowed and you simply have to move.

Gene pool ends with you...good.

Does you wife walk on the left or right when she is one step behind?

Seriously LD...pilots are cheap and they whine about the thing bothering them the most. Right now commuters bother you so you are whining about them. You know what I hate? The guy that whines about people whining and thinks everyone should live their lives as they do.

Karma dude...

Its what you take on when you insist on commuting. Try another profession if its that miserable bro

Two base changes and 2 downgrades, not commuting by choice. But you're right, screw me and all the others who need to commute to make a living. It wasn't like this when I started, but I guess according to you I need to just give up what I have trained and paid a lot of money to learn because a couple of 'fellow' pilots and cranky gate agents like to mess with us.

And I didnt say it was miserable, where did I say it was miserable? I only meant it would be nice if we could TRY to help each other. I guess some of you don't see it that way.

Yes I know it wasn't..

You made Cappy at G7!?!! Good for you. But I meant more than any G7 FO on your list. In all seriousness, it doesn't matter.. Take a look at how old you are and how old I am.. Fact of the matter is, when I'm your age, I'll still be dreaming of being a mighty CRJ7 commander... Ha oh wait.. Still too young to even upgrade for now. Horrible problem I have, I know

You did in fact make the choice to commute, or does your company not pay moving expenses? You don't need to give anything up but quit saying you have no choice. Be greatful you are even able to commute. Most jobs if your company pulls out of a city then tough luck you either move or switch jobs.

Two downgrades, a furlough, and 6 base closures/displacements to date. Pretty sure number 7 is coming up in the fall. The first five years, I averaged one base closure/displacement a year. In the fall, that average will go to 1 in just under every 1.85 years.

Well, it's sort of "a choice".

Read my above post. I guess that's good you don't plan on having kids. But if so, would you uproot them and move once a year on average in 5 years? Would the wife be happy about that? Would you move on average every 2 years? Would you move wife and kids to some of the most expensive cities in the country? Do you think you'd ever be able to do things like, I don't know, progress in life and own a home you can live in at that pace? I venture to guess your perspective would be much much different

I don't b1tch about my commute. But to those that say it's "a choice" have yet to see how much that "choice" can get made for you.

Funny, many of the most adement whiners I know are the hub dwellers that complain about the cost of living in the domiciles, taxes in the domiciles, the traffic. Or not being senior of hold day trips, 2 days, or 3 days. Or a lack of day trips, 2 days, or 3 days.

Again, see my above. You say "over the course of a career". I would have had 4 moves in just 4 years.

Perspective, some have it, some don't. I guess you go into the "don't" category.

Thanks for the laugh. AGAIN, perspective. Tell a wife that if there's family/a support system where you live, and there WON'T be one where you're moving too.

I've watched Delta 2010 hires INVOLUNTARILY be kicked from DTW 320 to MEM 320 to NYC 757/767 to DTW DC9 to ATL 717. So in less then 3 years they've been forced into 4 category changes. Should they not commute? What about the pilot who moves to base only to be kicked out of base? Will you pay the loss on their homes so they can move to base? Did they choose to commute? You should understand that commuting is not always a choice.

I did move, twice. And the moderator reminded me that I also took a loss on my house when I had to sell it only to get moved again in less than a year. Do you really believe that what the company pays covers ALL your moving expenses? I won't even get into how much we lost when my wife had to quit her job, find a new one, only to have to quit again. She's unable to build any longevity and contribute to our income like she was when we started out living at my base.

I don't commute on red eyes and I am not an FO. I drive now because it's easier than fighting for a seat on an unreliable regional. But it doesn't mean that I don't understand why other do it and that I wouldn't help them in any way I could to get to work. Before the flight, I make the walk and it's not a big deal.

When I was not a commuter I always did my best to help the guys. But I didn't do it because I understood, I did it because I don't mind helping people...even whiners.

It affects me when I have to fly with someone too tired to do their job the first day. I don't care what the story is, if you are not fit too fly......DO NOT DO IT. I know everyone has family and priorities are your own. I repeat you choose the life you live. I will not make accommodation for sleepy crewmembers that just commuted in.

Most of the complaints I hear are from the guys who live at base that stayed out too late the night before while the commuters always talk about how they slept all the way. So what's your complaint with the guys who are trying to jumpseat home?

Good point.

What do you do if it's a late show trip flying into midnight and your fellow crewmember had to get up early? He/she had wake up and watch the the kids all day while the spouse was at work because they "chose" to move to base and away from friends/family that may be able to help out.

Wait, rich airline pilots (especially FO's) can afford day care all time and/or a nanny, never mind.

Isn't playing devil's advocate fun game?

I don't care what the circumstances are if you are not fit to fly don't show up. If you had to stay awake all day and you are too tired to fly that evening call in sick. IF you find that your lifestyle doesn't allow you to perform your duties satisfactorily maybe a career change is in your future.

I would love to hear the phone conversation with the chief pilot for that one.

"I'm calling in sick because I had to stay awake all day."

Vilcas, pull your head out of your fart pipe, smell the coffee, and get yourself a reality check!

So you advocate flying while fatigued? If you are fatigued due to work, you call out fatigued. If you're fatigued due to other than work reasons, you call out sick. It is unfair to the rest of your crew to show up to work unable to effectively do your job, commuter or not.

Also, when have you ever had to explain why you are calling out sick? The most an employer can ask of you is to get a doctor's note, which only has to say you went to the doctor or are under the care of said doctor. Most companies I know of only do that when said employee has called out sick an excessive amount of times in a short period.

Privacy laws prevent you from having to disclose why you called out sick.

[QUOTE=NE_Pilot;1419949]So you advocate flying while fatigued? QUOTE]

Do you advocate coming to work in your sisters underware?

Don't twist my words. Calling out sick because you are tired, due to having to stay awake all day has to be the most pathetic excuse I have ever heard, and I have heard some pretty crazy stuff since joining this forum.

Its right up there with lying to your wife about the rules of comuting. No wonder the divorce rate is high in this industry.

If you are up all day and think you will be unable to perform your shift and do it anyway to avoid being viewed as pathetic then you end up being irresponsible. Being irresponsible when you have other people's lives in your hands is pathetic.

You call your chief pilot and use that line the next time you've been up all day and let me know how it goes.

Better still, you should write a letter to the FAA and the NTSB and share your concerns. Maybe they will ban commuting altogether, then you will be happy!

One simple solution to the divorce rate is DO NOT GET MARRIED. Have a significant other and when you break up you don't have to let some jerk in a robe boss you around. Marriage isn't much more than a piece of paper anyways. The divorce rate is high for everyone not just for pilots. Having kids when you are commuting to reserve is pretty selfish IMO. At least wait til you hold a line.