SKW EMB pilots get shafted!
 

The new pay proposal at SKW passed thanks to the 975 pilots that sold the Bro pilots out. Yes 1% for the CRJ-200 pilots and 6% (CRJ 1% + override of 5%) for the 700/900 pilots may not seem like much, but it is better than what we (EMB Pilots) got, NOTHING. Not even COLA or QOL, NOTHING. That means we will enter our 6th year without any changes, except the ones Mgmnt pencil whips behind out backs. But hey, we did get a free Turkey for the holidays. I guess it's fitting. Thanks Jerry, SAPA, Brad, those 975 pilots and the rest of SKW for nothing.

I know that Jerry doesn’t want a union so I actually wonder if he thinks this BS Pay Proposal will actually prevent one. Or, maybe he’s pushing us to go union so he can merge the two pilot groups (SKW & ASA) in order to reduce training and Mgmnt cost? He’s a brilliant man so I wonder what his motives for such a BS Proposal were.

Oh and did I mention that first year pay got a HUGE bump from $19.02 to $19.25 an hour. LOL! What will the first year guys do with all that money? LOL!!!

Amen bro!!!!!

And the SkyWest spiral into the shytter begins.

You’re kidding right? Even with the new pay policy (not contract, we’re not union) our 200/700/900 pilots are at the top of the industry as far as pay and our QOL is industry leading. SKW will never fall THAT FAR! I'm just PO'd we (Bro Pilots) didn't even get COLA & first year pay didn’t increase to above $21.

I was dissapointed to see the proprosal passed. Maybe this will encourage Bro pilots to send in their cards if they haven't. Even with the 1% increase for newhires, considering inflation all bro pilots will be taking pay cuts till 2010

I'm no Skywest fan, but I doubt it will "spiral" anywhere... It is interesting to see how the pilots stepped on eachother though... Why not stick up for the Bro pilots?

Maybe they just figured that people don't really spend much time on the Bro to begin with. It seems like the Bro is more of a "get a year of good experience then switch to the jet" and "get a faster upgrade to start getting PIC turbine then switch to the jet" type of aircraft. So it's possible most of the pilots thought it was fine because of that.

That's just my theory. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just my idea.

Uh, you might want to check your #'s, I'll give you the 50 seat by a few bucks, but you said 200/700/900 . I'm looking at ASA's 11 year 700 rate at $83, Skywest's at $76., and ASA is negotiating. American Eagle 700 $83, 50 seat $79, Comair 700, $96, 50 seat $86, Republic 700 $83, 50 seat $79. This is for an 11 year Captain. Is that your version of TOP of the industry?

Dude, quit drinking the Kool-aid. You're the one that asked you're kidding..

I know that you really can't be that big of an idiot to not factor in our new pay package, thus the reason for the above statement. The pay scale that you’re using is over 6 years old. Name one regional that hasn't had a new TA in over 6 years and 6 years ago our pay scale was top of the industry as well. In 2007 our new 200/700/900 rates are respectively (11 yr CA) 78/82/82, 2008 78/83/83, 2009 78/84/84, and 2010 78/85/85. Add in our credits and bonuses and we will be top of the industry again. Plus you can't compare Comair seeing that their in so much trouble and won't be retaining their current TA for much longer, concession will be taken. After all, they are loosing flying. AND, you smoke to much if you think Jerry will pay his "Step Child" more than his "Son."

You're a pilot, math shouldn't be that hard. I know that the above numbers are nothing to brag about but if we’re going to compare numbers make sure there apples to apples.

P.S. I said that our pay is “Top of the Industry” not “Industry Leading.”

Puff, Puff, Give SMOKEY!

Perhaps... Or the pilots just voted on whatever would benefit themselves the most... Thus, another victory for management as they successfully have the pilots divided on the matter...

{QUOTE}The pay scale that you’re using is over 6 years old. Name one regional that hasn't had a new TA in over 6 years and 6 years ago our pay scale was top of the industry as well. In 2007 our new 200/700/900 rates are respectively (11 yr CA) 78/82/82, 2008 78/83/83, 2009 78/84/84, and 2010 78/85/85.

What are you smoking? Congrats! Your 2007 70 seat rate be, oh, still lower than the ASA rate from 1998. You seem to be so good with #'s, but that rate is 8 years old.

I guess I don't know what the word top means, but it usually means the high mark in the industry. Maybe you should try industry average.

Yes Comair is having a hard time right now, maybe we should use Horizon, but they put us all to shame with their pay rates.

Damn Smokey that's Funny! YES, I do know that their current TA was agreed to in 1998. But what I don't know is how ASA could have had a pay scale 8 years ago for an aircraft they did have until March of 2002. Using my fingers I was about to count and I figure that was about 4 1/2 years ago. So what you actually mean is that they negotiated an amendment to their 98 TA for the 70 in 02. That must be nice, we at SKW didn't want to fly our 70's for 50 seat pay, Mgmnt made us.

Eagle got their first in 01 and Horizon in mid 02.

Plus, I over night quite often with Horizon pilots and even they know that their next TA will have concessions. Seeing that they lost the F9 flying and Alaska operating cost are still too high.

Puff, Puff, give Smokey.

Really? Is this what they say? Well they aren't the pilots I work with. Why the hell would we take any concessions when we've made money for three years straight, had two consecutive record profit quarters, and are getting more 76 seat Q400s that make a fair profit for the company?:mad: :confused:

As far as "losing" the Frontier contract. I wouldn't call it that. We needed the airplanes for our own system and Frontier wanted a cheap ***** airline to lower thier costs in the face of competition.

Alaska's operating costs may be too high, by they aren't Horizon. And I don't work for Alaska.

That's funny, last I checked Horizon was wholly owned by Alaska. And as far as making money take a look at ASA and Comair. ASA has been the most profitable regional posting the highest Q earnings. Yes, Alaska isn't in bankruptcy but what do your thinks going to happen when Virgin starts up in less than 230 days and starts to compete with there North American routes. Virgin is supposed to have significantly less operating cost than Alaska. Now don't get me wrong, I like Alaska and I don't want Virgin to even get off the ground but I can't control that.

Alaska will have to reduce total cost and Horizon, being a wholly owned airline of Alaska, will have to as well. It's business 101; if Alaska needs to cut cost then a well paid labor force will be the first place they turn. If you don't believe me then just look at Comair and if you still don't then just wait.

I hope I’m wrong, but the written on the wall. When Alaska needs to cut more cost no part of Alaska is safe.

Well, last time I checked Horizon was owned by Alaska Air Group which owns both Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air. You should know how a holding company works, you work for one. Do you work for ASA? No. You work for SkyWest, a subsidiary of SkyWest, Inc. Alaska's goal of a 7.25 or lower CASM is nowhere near what Horizon is looking for. Do we need to cut costs? Certainly. There are many initiatives underway to reduce costs.

As far as the reference to the profits of ASA and Comair...well, as an employee of SkyWest you know all too well that it is quite easy to make a profit when you get paid a guaranteed profit. It's a whole different thing when you a majority of your flying is a your own risk. 70% of Horizon's passengers don't connect to any other airline. There is no comparison between the two business models.

Virgin America. If they ever get their operating certificate we'll see what happens. Just remember they will directly compete with your cash cow United, too. And probably less directly with your other cash cow Delta.

Forgive me for not clarifying "Group," I misunderstood you intelligence when I thought that was understood.

The majority of our flying may be based on our code shares but we do a lot of "at risk flying" with our Bros.

[quote=JetJock16;87647]That must be nice, we at SKW didn't want to fly our 70's for 50 seat pay, Mgmnt made us.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where Skywest is "tops".

And your Horizon argument is funny, what do you suggest? We keep lowering the bar because management says they aren't making enough profit? No thanks, are you management?

[QUOTE=BALZAHARI;87956]Read my other posts about pay where I spell out the entire pay policy at SKW. I constantly block 83-88 hours but get paid 95 – 105 (that's about 10 + hours more per month), does your airline have these kind of guaranteed credits. Each quarter our average CA gets about $1000 in bonuses ($4000 + per year) and the FO's get about half. Add it all up and you'll get the big picture. I won’t even get started with QOL.

Management? Idiot! LOL

[QUOTE=JetJock16;87995]So, what you are saying is that you are guaranteed 10+ hours credit over your block?

[QUOTE=BALZAHARI;87956]The whole not making a profit, lets take it from the employees stuff is a bunch of bull sh!t. If you aren't making enough money, try charging enough for your product. If the cost of beef goes up, you dont see McDonalds lowering its wages. Your happy meal costs more. My wife bought a ticket from DFW to ORD for a business trip the other day. It leaves this thursday. Round trip cost, $153 including all taxes and fees. A coworker also bought a ticket after that one for about the same price. Prices need to go up instead of pay going down.

[QUOTE=G-Dog;88016]These are averages. I've had higher and lower, but on average I get 10-15 hours more pay than I fly. It's because we have daily guarantees and additional guarantees for working over 12 hours of duty. Plus we get the higher of Actual Block and Leg Credit (which is historic block). Over the course of a month it sure adds up.

[QUOTE=KZ1000Shaft;88045]Here! Here!

One of these days I'm gonna come on to this forum and see you post something that doesn't bash a quality airline like SkyWest. I thought you admitted that SkyWest was obviously a great place to be, and wasn't lowering the bar. Oh yea, and I haven't looked at it in really close detail, but I'm pretty sure our 50 pay is either tops or really really close to tops.

Good post, Gotta look at the big picture

You shouldn't talk about things you don't understand, Brasilia Boy.

First off, why don't you give us the numbers on ASA "losing flying". Tell us how many routes ASA has lost since the acquisition. (I'll help you, we're only ENTITLED to 80% of ATL by the Delta agreement). Oh, and do you HONESTLY believe you will get the Comair stuff?

Second of all, it's not about what Jerry WANTS to pay his redneck stepkids, it's about what our union will MAKE him pay. And you should be praying to the deity of your choice that we top your current pay or you can expect to bend over and lose flying to us.

I'm here to tell you, the ASA pilots are getting tired of hearing the high and mighty Skywest pilots speak ill of us. With one stroke of a pen we could undercut you and take YOUR routes.

Yep, ALPA is going to MAKE SkyWest, Inc. pay them more and actually pay pilots what they are worth... just like Trans States pilots are going to get more, Mesa pilots are going to get more, who else is going to get more??? Because we as pilots are going to MAKE management pay us more? I can't believe that it has taken four years for management not to come to terms with you guys when you are going to MAKE them pay you...

From what I have heard, the transfer of flying has occured because of how bad ASA's management is, not because of SkyWest undercutting ASA. But, I am not management, just what I have heard on the line.

How did you guys get the Frontier flying?

That's a very dangerous attitude...for all of us. Most SKW pilots don't want ASA flying and are pulling for you guys on the contract. A few new hires are falling all over themselves, but what do you expect? They are not representative of the group as a whole, and will learn soon enough.

SKW has enormous growth opportunities, so it makes no sense to expend all of our training resources to replace pilots from another SKW owned unit! I would much rather replace mesa in the west rather than ASA in the east.

I did overhear some ASA guys in airport restaruant a couple months ago...the conversation went something like "I sure hope SKW votes in ALPA...then we can merge lists with DOH and all the ASA FO's can come west and be captains" :eek: That certainly got my attention, and I repeated that conversation to about 100 SKW pilots. Situations like this cannot help the two groups come together.

Maybe ASA alpa and the SKW alpa comittee should get together and hash out a fair integration plan, and then publicize it. That would take away one of the major uncertainies with the SKW alpa drive. I want to achieve unity and equitable integration with ASA, it's the only way in the long run. But I'm a rocky mountain homeboy, and I sure as h#ell don't want to be sitting reserve in hotlanta...alpa scares the heck out of me in that regard. If I wanted to work for an east coast airline, I would have done that a long time ago.

Then maybe your pilot group should reign in your newhires and convince them to quit saying stupid and inflammatory things towards us on the web!

In a DOH merger, we have the seniority. There is zero precedent for a staple. The only fair method would be % relative seniority with domicile and aircraft fences.

We got the Frontier flying? Source?

The four years was the result of Delta instructing our previous management to stall.

As for "making" them pay, we have a 400 pound gorilla called the Railway Labor Act on our side. Ocasionally it does work. ALPA requested a release to a 30 day cooling off period prior to a strike, and instead of rejecting it, the NMB gave ASA one last chance to negotiate the contract. We are closer to a strike than ever before, and suddenly management is tripping over themselves to settle. I'm willing to place a friendly bet that we DO get more.

If you take the internet that seriously, it's hopeless. Most real SKW pilots are pretty rational and sympathetic. But I was pretty disturbed to overhear two real live asa pilots talking about using alpa to staple us...we don't sit around our crew rooms talking about how we can get even more asa flying, we consider it a very serious issue that the asa issue gets resolved rapidly and fairly.

I agree with % relative seniority and temporary fences. TWA alumni might argue the staple topic.

I am very sympathetic when it comes to ASA. I have quite a few friends that work there and we talk often. The bottom line is, you are his "Step Child,'" like it or not it's true.

Apparently you’re very delusional, probably sniffing to much Jet A, but last I checked a TA was an agreement. If you actually think that ALPA forces the airline to pay then maybe you should look around the industry. Name one ALPA carrier that has stuck it to Mgmnt. Get off the fumes man; they've already killed too many of your brain cells. I bet you that when ASA gets their new TA that the bottom line will right with ours.

F9, Comair and SLC flying. I wouldn't be surprised if ASA ends up with both F9 and Comair flying. BUT, it makes since that all SLC flying end up with SKW. After all it is our back yard and makes no business since to overlap both airlines there. Yes we are flying 900 out of ALT now, but what Jerry has planed with both of us is up in the air. The only thing that is certain is that changes are happening and I'm 110% positive that the outcome with be positive for both airlines. I fully support ASA, but I'm not delusional on were we stand when it comes to HQ.

Finally, get off your high horse. Yes there are quite a few pilots at SKW that mouth off but the same can be said about ASA. And it's apparent your one of them.

In the end SKW Inc. will come out with a business plan that will utilize both airlines to strengthen our future. Believe me when I say that Jerry won't let ALPA compromise that.

Your synapses were firing on all cylinders with that comment....*sarcasm*

Never say never!

couldn't agree with this more

True! Plenty have said never before (Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, Etc.) :)

John,

I will make a FRIENDLY bet, say dinner, that you don't get what you WANT or expect. Will your contract be an improvement, of course. But will you get what you have waited four years for??? Plus the contract is subjective to our views which will make it difficult to determine who won the bet. Either way, good luck and you can treat me and my $19.02/hr worthless a** to dinner and I'll buy the drinks!

I hope you guys are the start of getting things back to the way they should be in the industry with respect to pay and quality of life. It needs to start somewhere.

www.Airlinepilotcentral.com is where it is posted that you will be doing Frontier flying. I have seen things on there about SkyWest before we as pilots found out about them for sure, so I have no reason to believe it isn't true. However, I just checked and it isn't there any more. Maybe I saw it somewhere else, did anyone else see it on here?

Maybe the Bro pilots at Skyworst, I mean Skybest, or I guess its Skywest, need to implement a slowdown. Show them what you think.

Funny man, we do care about your airline a little more than that.