How About A Summary of The NewPSA CBA Please?
 

Can someone just give the bullet points on the pros and cons of the new contract?

Here's the Cliffs Notes version:

http://www.perouinc.com/photos/2085.jpg

Lololololololol

Ok cmon...seriouslyyy

A clear path for advancement for the "professional" pilots of PSA ?

That one had me in stitches. The title of the article should read, "PSA pilots approve throwing the rest of the industry under the bus for 30 pieces of flying silver".

I'm not at PSA so please enlighten us.

1) The quoted article says that PSA did not lower pay but simply cap it at 12/4 years respectively. If regional airlines are supposed to be a step in a career and not a career in itself (not reality in the last 8 years, I know but everyone's hopes) why is this bad?

2) What exactly are the reasons why people are so angry?

Exactly. Once Pinnacle set the 12/4 year cap, other regionals will follow to compete.

It seems as though all the young FO's ask, "why is the old geezer still flying MY regional jet?" It's like they think all you have to do is apply to a major/cargo and you're hired. In the meantime you might not have any movement at your regional and you are stuck at $42 until you can upgrade because you maxed out at 4 years. Do you really believe that's all a pilot who is responsible for all those lives is worth??? Just because it's a regional doesn't make those lives any less significant, you still have to be able to fly a jet. Your pay stagnates and yet inflation just keeps on truckin'. If something happens to the captain (United pilot has a heart attack) and suddenly YOU become the only person who can bring that plane down safely and you want to know why we're upset about caps on already low pay??? And I believe the B scale pay for new hires IS a pay cut, course I could be wrong but don't think I am.

Are you seriously asking this? You obviously are not a professional pilot or your daddy is paying all your bills.

If the majors didn't want us to make regionals a career then they should stop sending main line size airplanes our way.

But now they got their "C" scale….

It's **** poor management that looks to rip labors income for profits.

Ask a 4 year FO who is about to go to year 5 if this is a pay cut? Ask anyone who is now having to give up more of their pay check to health care if this is a pay cut. Then ask why us airways group, that made 409 million pretax profit in the 2nd quarter this year, needs pilots who already make nothing to give up more? Because of greed! Who wouldn't be upset. And the pilots at psa are either ignorant or ok with greedy management taking more from them. There are pages and pages of people making these exact points over and over again. There is the stop the whipsaw web page and Facebook page stating these same things and I'm blown away people still get on here and ask what the big deal is? Do just an hour of research and listen to the numbers of pilots being vocal about banding together to stop the whipsaw. It will make you more informed and hopefully convince you this is a fight worth fighting for. Regardless of what airline you work for, we can all agree to no more concessions so we can all start getting paid more...well except for that 61 percent at psa who don't want a pay raise. I feel the worst for the psa guys who tried and voted no. I hope to see them come over to Skywest to help us negotiate a raise.

Or, like Bendover Air, you've been a captain for a couple years finally and now find yourself getting downgraded where 9 years at the company will now net you $30000/yr max with very little chance of ever getting back in the captain seat.

Capping pay for FOs at 4 years...It defies logic that these people approved that kind of a contract...

Republic pilots proudly set that precedent.

Amen brother, well said!

Basically if you a 13-17 year CA at PSA you have to apply at mainline or take your current salary for life.

They then make u interview and if you turn the interview down no more raises. If you interview and don't get it they will then tell u why u didn't and then cap your longevity raises.

The jobs are not guaranteed at mainline they only need to hire 25% of their new hires per year from PSA.

I am seriously asking this and my daddy doesn't pay my bills. In fact, my career path thus far in my life and education have probably been more satisfying and relevant than yours not to mention that I've been financially independent since I was 18. Just because you have been abused by the industry longer than I have doesn't mean that you are smarter and well read making it so that I have no right to an opinion. If you want to personally insult me like a 12 year old, be my guest. I now discount everything you say as emotional garbage.

Now, from what a read on the website, there is no B-scale. The scale remains intact until the first large RJ arrives on property and only then a cap is put in place. I'm not trying to defend it. I personally wouldn't have voted yes as I know regional pilots get paid less than they should but I can understand why they did. A little job security goes a long way in this business and it appears they feel they got some with the agreement.

I'm just trying to get hard facts and less emotional me, me, me hate that has been spewed. It seems from the intent of the CBA that PSA is trying to prevent an Eagle situation by forcing people out of a career RJ position and into the mainline. If you choose not to go, your pay is frozen.

One has to wonder how bad life at Frontier and or home must be to have to lurk in the Regional Pilot forums and try to bad mouth Republic Pilots at any chance possible. I actually kind of feel bad for you. Hopefully life brings you some sort of joy.

Do you ever stop complaining? You upgraded after 2 years at Mesaba. What do you have to cry about?

It's got a long ways to go before "rock bottom" what with people concerned about illegal strikes...

UP or OUT. This is what appears to be the path these days. The regional level should never be, nor should have ever been, the end career level. It is a path. Anyone who gets too comfortable there should be nervous. Life will become increasingly more painful to endure and ever less rewarding.

Is it not clear now what corporate is "saying" with these contracts?

Good news for the young and eager; bad news for the lifers...wherever you intended to hang your hat. UP or OUT.

Your career path and education have probably been more satisfying and relevant than mine??? Where do you get this from? What a stupid statement as you have NO idea who I even am. Well, that pretty much tells everybody all they need to know about you! How in the heck did I insult you? You wanted to know why some of us (a LOT of us) are upset about the PSA TA and you're acting as though just because we're flying regionals that we don't have a right to a decent pay check or quality of life. That makes it appear you might not know much about this particular level of the airline industry.

The regional airline industry has been very good to me and I personally don't have too many complaints because I've made some smart/lucky decisions as to where to go and how long to stay. That being said, I've seen a lot of my fellow pilots who have not been so lucky...doesn't mean I don't care about them. How does not wanting to see a group settle for a 5 year extension on an already lowball contract with pay caps translate into ME, ME, ME? You think that this is for job security? Why do you want THAT kind of job security where you have to continue to lower your compensation.

Do you actually believe that management CARES if you end up at mainline or not? You think that they encouraged this in an effort to get you to further your own career??? I just have to laugh. This is all about squeezing every penny they can get out of their pilots and getting all the flying they can to line their own pockets, that's all. I don't even know why I responded so you. It's like saying, "Look, I promise not to expect any more compensation from you if you'll just let me keep this job and my cool uniform."

The lives of the flying public are in our hands, you don't act like you realize what the true value of that job is. Again, I have to laugh that you would believe your life is sooo much better and you have no clue who I am or what my situation is. Thanks for the laugh...

Except that you are advocating the exact opposite of "one level of safety".

So you think that making pay and quality of life at the regionals as poor as possible is a good thing so people aren't tempted to stay there for the long term? That seems to be your point in trying to prevent an Eagle situation. I agree that we should strive to move on to the mainline side of things but it doesn't mean life at the regional level needs to be such a grind.

As for the job security, look at the shortage that is starting to show it's face. Great Lakes doesn't have enough FOs. Republic can't staff it's Q400 fleet. Theses are just preliminary, early signs. The majors haven't even ramped up yet. It's going to get worse. We have plenty of job security. If you don't see the signs you are ignorant.

The emotional hate being spewed, although I don't agree with some of it, is still understood. All of our attempts at making life better for regional pilots just got sh@t on. I am as ****ed off as anyone else on here. To say someone who is upset has "me me me" at the heart of their frustration shows you don't understand the issue. This is about "us us us". Anyone on here who is ****ed off about the PSA contract is ****ed because our chance at unifying has been undermined. I wouldn't deny a jump seat but I sure would spend the time together with a YES voter making that pilot think long and hard about what the consequences of their vote are. I would spend the time with a PSA NO voter trying to convince them they deserve better than to work at an operation that gives no value to the work they do. I use this number over and over again to prove a point: $409,000,000 pre tax profit over 3 months (2nd quarter). Think about that much money going into management's hands. Now you are giving up pay raises beyond year 4 and 12? Paying even more for insurance? They only are contractually required to give you 1 airplane? You only get an interview? Unbelievable.

Deleted............

Lol. Cat got your tongue?

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...%20Victory.jpg

try the last 16 years...

You can NOT plan to destroy your ability to earn a living at a regional, on the hopes that you will go to a mainline job later. You are one 9-11 away from being a lifer at a regional through no fault of your own. A major war, an economic collapse... a host of things could happen that will result in you staying exactly where you are now, perhaps even displacing back to FO if you're a CA... or being furloughed if your an FO. Your best bet is to make your job the best it can be, not sell it out on the hopes of going elsewhere. Don't be a sell out. Besides, do you really think a mainline HR department staffed with line Captains wants a bunch of pilots who have proven they can't even stand up for themselves? You guys have FO's on food stamps and in poverty wages and you're still accepting concessions from PROFITABLE companies? Please do NOT come to my airline and infect our pilot group with that kind of negotiating skill. No wonder we prefer to hire military pilots, they've proven they will fight for something.

Do Doctors force their young to work for poverty wages for years and years at a time... are all General Practicioners just "apprentice" Doctors until they become specialists? Do they go back to appretice wages simply by changing employer?

Do lawyers force their young to work for poverty wages for years and years? are all of them "apprentice" lawyers until they become an associate? Are their rates any cheaper? Do they go back to apprentice wages simply by changing law firms?

Do Carpenters, Plumbers or Electricians go back to being apprentices if they switch jobs?

You have a lot of growing up to do. Please do so before coming to a mainline company. We can't afford you.

You know there are thousands of men and women who are independent since they were 17 and 18 in our US military. Oh wait, but they are putting their lives on the line for this country. So what's your point and/or contribution? If I had to pick the smarter of the 2, you don't win. Like another poster stated, we are one 911 away from another airline stone age. The intent of the CBA is trying to force people out of career RJ position and into the mainline, that's so ridiculous. They could care less if you leave the top of their seniority list and go haul garbage as long as they can replace you with a zombie for cheap.

Ohh man, you really have issues if you can not even post something without having to delete it. Is it just too much to try and be a good guy these days? Disregard feeling bad for you... my **** wont be putting your flames out anytime soon.

Ok so here is what I gathered for cons:

1. Max captain pay goes from $99 to $87

2. Max FO pay goes from $41 to $39

3. 10 year contract

So the rest of the contract remains the same from the past few years?

Max captain pay isn't set. Well it is at year 12. But if you are a 6 year captain and bust two interviews you are locked in at 6 year pay till you quit.
Airplanes are not defined as growth or replacement. Airways has 2 years to deliver.
Is it realistic that people would be stuck on 6 year captain pay? No. But 8,9,10,11 is.

Yes, but the difference in pay is actually a little less due to an increase in our blended rate....The FO pay will probably be the same. I think the captain pay will be around 90. We will also receive a 1%/year increase so by the end the captain rate will be close to caught up.

But........We also took a 7% increase in medical costs over time.

Also if you interview twice at airways and dont make it your pay is frozen at current longevity. Same if you decide not to apply to airways. This is by far the worst part of the agreement IMO.

Airways has "sole discretion" while deciding if PSA has qualified applicants at any given time and their obligation to hire us will be met if they decide no one is.

Lastly, there is nothing that guarantees these acft are actually growth.

So it's a lot worse than what you posted.