Legal Job Action.
 

Would refusing to pick open time for a specific week every month be an illegal job action and would you support it? If every first week of the month pilots refused to pick up open time and just safely flew the contract then management would notice. If you have a better idea please share because I know many of us are just dying to participate in anything positive instead of being part of the problem like we've always been by taking these poor excuses of jobs.

I think asking for the top regional contract across all the regionals is a fair goal for now.

I like the idea of making a powerful statement without breaking the law and think a joint refusal to pick up open time is a good idea. Its not illegal and union contracts don't normally force anyone to pick up open time.

The problem is there are too many people with Stockholm syndrome that wouldn't dare to upset their corporate masters.
I have been criticized on this forum for pointing out the fact that that GoJet and Republic don't have cancelation pay, or that Compass forces you to quit your current job, but only pays $450 for the first month of training and doesn't provide accommodation during training. These are the people that would gladly bend over and kiss ass to "help out" crew scheduling.

The other problem you may have is that so many F.O.'s, particularly those in their first year and on probation, are forced to pick up every minute of open time just to survive financially.

Good for you for thinking of a way to make a point though. You certainly aren't going to get any help or support from ALPA.

By the way, polls on this forum are worthless. We have seen time and again how internet warriors vote hell ya on forums, but cower when it comes time to vote on concessions.

As an individual choice, no.

As an organized campaign, yes.

And anonymous message boards are not anonymous.

I pick up a ton of stuff from open time to make my schedule 112+ every month....but only from other crew members. The company is short staffed to cover the flying, they should hire more.

Teamsters 1224 was successfully sued in court over an open time ban. The court found that a pilot group who suddenly stopped picking up historical average amounts of open time were in fact, conducting an illegal job action.

It's not a ban. You can pick open time if you want to. I personally choose not to. Is like to hear more details on the teamsters deal though. Sounds like there's more to that story.

Upon further recollection, 1224 didn't call for a ban, but rather said that the members were free to choose rather or not to pick up open time. Management successfully argued in court that that was a "code word" for an open time ban.

Well it still does not apply to us. Alpa isn't doing this. What are they going to do, sue all the pilots for not volunteering to work in their days off?

Don't underestimate what management would do to prove a point. They just have to sue a few regoinal pilots and they know the rest will soon cave as they don't have the resources to fight them in court. They know that your typical regional pilot isn't going to fight them in court when they are sued. You will be alone and responsible for your legal fees. Management knows that you guys don't make enough money to fight them in court and too, they know that the regional pilot doesn't want the stigma of having been sued for labor issues. Good luck getting hired at a major with that on your record.

You can't be serious. Why is it that there's always someone that comes on here and put holes in every attempt to do something? Are you in management? Not trying to make it a personal attack because you're probably a nice guy but if someone comes on here and risks posting what I posted please don't be so negative.

Again, nothing personal but it's comments and reasoning like yours that we are where we are. We can have them by the balls. We have nothing to loose and everything to gain if we just unite in saying "this isn't right and we deserve better".

If you're scared then keep doing what you're doing. I for one will never pick up open time and hope others join me.

This is how it will be.

MemBrain for ALPA president!

JK but you sound a lot like a lobbyist for RAA. Are you?

How? You think you'll get in trouble for not bailing out your airline who fails to staff properly?

Read my first post on this thread again. Put that together with what membrain said.

Research the case law.

Times are unprecedented. We are at an all time low in the industry. We make minimum wages flying what should be mainline airplanes.
We now have a tool what we didn't have before. That tool is social media. Best of all, this is America and no law can tell me that I can't suggest that we should do something to better our careers. Especially since I'm not advocating for anything illegal. Picking up open time is still a choice. If you want to you can but I won't be.

All you're saying is shut up and take it. You realize that you're part of the problem right?

Thank you to whoever started the "Stop the Whipsaw" movement. Even though it wasn't successful in stopping the PSA massacre of 2013 at least it was a great effort. We need more of that.

We all know that we are underpaid and that there's no way it'll ever get better if something doesn't change. Every other thread on here has someone complain about how their company sucks or how because another regional sucks it's forcing them to suck too. Well I have news for you...We're all horrible and if you're at the top of the regional food chain then you're next to come down a notch.

Or maybe you're a senior captain an interview away from leaving the regionals to a better place. Well, you'd have a lot better job security and growth if there weren't pilots flying for nothing. There should be no Commercial Airline pilot barely making it from paycheck to paycheck. We should be able to feed our families and secure our future. Legacy pilots should be just as outraged by our pay and work rules but they're not and it's up to us few who see the problem but have hope.

Remember that there is management on here or just people who sympathize with them so negative comments are expected. What's hard to swallow is fellow pilots putting down other pilots for imploring change.

NoLightOff,

Hetman speaks facts, not opinion; get used to it. I was on the EAL MEC, we ran a "Max Safety" program, or rather, someone ran it outside the MEC. We all got sued under a Federal RICO suit. Sheriff comes to my one-bedroom apartment, serves me and I pointed out, everything in the place wasn't worth $500, I'd settle out of court. He laughed.

Yes, any organized work stoppage or action to impair your employer's business is likely to blowback in a bad way. If you don't want to pick up open time--great. See how it works at the majors, where senior guys pickup open time with guys furloughed. Human nature.

GF

You're right. There's no hope.

Hey is this legal?
Pilot for hire. Will fly for $1 an hour less than any other pilot as long as the airplane has jet engines under the wings.

Might as well.

Because you haven't educated yourself on history. All you've described has been tried before and guys lost piles of money in the resulting lawsuits, because what you describe is illegal action.

I'm the first guy to bang the unity drum, but this thread and poll is suggesting a ILLEGAL job action, not a legal one. Posting this could very well open you up to significant liability if management figures out who you are, which is very easy to do if they subpoena this site's records, since it requires everyone to sign up with a "hard" email address. I suggest you pm the mods and beg them to delete the whole thread!

The list of pilot groups that have been slapped with injunctions for less is long and distinguished. You really need to do some research instead of the tired tactic of calling everyone who tries to reason with you a management sympathizer.

But with that said, neither you nor management can control individual pilot actions. If you still wish to reach out to your fellow pilots, the best way to organize unity is word of mouth, not on a public forum. (hint, hint).

If you want to change things, focus on the actual problem rather than some vitriol-driven strategy that history says will only lead to failure.

1) The Railway Labor Act
2) The dysfunctional National Mediation Board


Energy is better spent fighting legislators than it is getting pilot groups served with lawsuits.

You guys are smart and I'm sure will figure something better out. You've been great at raising the bar so far and I'm sure it'll just get better. Have fun trying to change the RLA with that negative attitude and have fun flying your shinny jets for less than half of what the rest of the world flies them for. Just ask yourself...what would legacy pilots do if America, Delta, or United made them fly for your wages? Would they stand for it? I guess they're just better than us.
I give up

The futility of the system is the biggest reason I left the airline hamster wheel.

Also, realize your wages are because the mass of pilots NOT at the majors believe that THEY will one day be a B777 captain making big bucks. Once there, you will realize that 40 years ago, REAL BIG bucks were paid to the B707 captains.

GF

I haven't picked up OT in around 5yrs or so. I'm waiting for summons!! :rolleyes:

That would really suck if mngt and the union got all up in a lawsuit and stuff. I mean, if they start fighting each other when are they going to have time to fight us? Wouldn't that be just like the divide and conquer they use on us (that works so well)?