We don't deserve better.
 

If anything we get paid too much. Management keeps bending us over and we just keep taking it. We have no backbone and they know it. We blame the RLA and other airlines undercutting us. We have every excuse but when it comes down to it...it's our own fault. It takes us 6 years to negotiate a crap contract and it takes the airline a few months to tear it up with a BS bankruptcy, threats or promises of bigger airplanes. Stop blaming management and each other and blame yourselves.

Legacy FO's make 5 times what a regional FO makes. Leagacy CA's make 3 or 4 times what regional CA's make. They deserve it. Not because they're better pilots but because we're too pathetic to do anything about it.

I hope Xjet takes the concessions and eventually Eagle too. Might as well. Why should they lose flying while Pinnacle and PSA will probably gain more flying because they sold out.

What a race to the bottom.
Man up, Unite, take it back.

Now to wait for 20 posts with no productive ideas, criticism and excuses about how there's nothing we can do.

Burn it all down. I'd rather go to another industry then work for the likes of Pinnacle or PSA or rather work under their rules...

UAL 1 year
http://charting.nasdaq.com/ext/chart...WD=530-HT=395-

DAL 1 year
http://charting.nasdaq.com/ext/chart...WD=530-HT=395-

US Airway stock more than tripped before merging. They're all making money off our cheap labor. Management are giving themselves massive raises and here we are fighting to keep the little we still have.

Wouldn't have to burn it down if we politely just said enough is enough. We have social networking. Unite your ideas and pull out of the spin to the ground.

Agreed!
It's funny how the %.0001 control the %99.999. The sad part is we let them. We're just slaves. Instead of whips, economic punishment is imposed. The middle class just keeps taking it because we don't want to be low class and we dream of upper class. I am a participator in the system too. Not throwing stones. But at some point you have to look in the mirror and say, enough.
Merry Christmas,

I think we have been polite long enough.... Either way its going to be a pull it just depends on if you inverted or not for you fate.

Only took Brazilian pilots the threat of a strike until management gave them a 5.6% raise among other things.
No they don't have to deal with the RLA because they wouldn't tolerate such a BS law in the first place and if they did I know they would do whatever it takes anyway regardless of the consequences. We suck.

Brazil airline workers call off strike, accept deal | Reuters

How much should regional pilots make annually? Are legacy pilots actually paid too much? What's a fair salary for a first/second year FO? Or a 10 year captain? I read so many posts demanding MORE, but what does that mean?

I can see where salaries get ridiculous on the low end, but many times the high end doesn't make much sense either. It's hard to agree with angry pilots when you don't know whether or not their demands are based in reality.

Id venture to say.... It supports moment and a livable wage over all
40RFO
60RCA
90LFO
120LCA

I can agree with wages along those lines. Now, if $100k/year regional captains didn't exist, would it be possible to pay FOs slightly more? Or would that just be an excuse to diminsh new hire pay even further?

I'd say that's a fair start too. Not shooting for the moon. Just trying to feed my family at year one and retire comfortably at year 20.

Pinnacle no longer exists. Endeavor is wholly owned so they won't be doing any flying for anyone but Delta. Maybe you mean GoJetss or Repubic??

Endeavor can still get more Delta flying. If anyone's going to get it I would image it be them.

Funny thing.... Most of G7 is full of pilots who held the line at Comair until the end. I don't know who you work for, but if its 9E get off your Soap box, because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Companies get the Unions they deserve.

Whoa there big guy. I don't work for 9E...I got out of there about 5 months ago (hired by Mesaba and acquired by Pinnacle). If you've ready ANY of my previous posts you'd know that. I know you probably don't have time to re read all of my previous posts but at least do some research before telling me to get off my soap box. What's your point about? Are you defending GoJet or previous Comair pilots? I don't have a problem at all with ex-Comair guys. My sim partner at my current airline worked up to the last day at Comair and he's a fantastic pilot and friend.

I assumed you were talking about the recent Eagle deal. Endeavor won't get any new American flying.

Just curious, fast forward 5, maybe 10 years... Do any of you see mainline in at least some of the RJ cockpits? I know United had a CRJ900 pay rate in their new contract (then again they also had A380 pay rates). Does anyone recall what they were? First year pay is $61/hr.....I can see it now "United Airlines hiring into the EMB170, $45/hr starting pay." I guess it depends how you look at it, US Airways operating "regional" sized aircraft, or RAH operating "mainline" sized aircraft.

I would doubt we'll see that, as the costs increase the amount of seats necessary per flight for profitability increases. I'm not sure how regionals will staff in 10-15 years but I would bet on foreign contract labor before mainline operating RJs.

Valid point, maybe I can't see a mainline United guy in a e145 seat per-say. But I think it's pretty realistic to see them axe 50 seaters, even some 76 seaters, in exchange for their own smaller aircraft, like the 135 seat CS300. At some point the cost increase from a higher salary has to be outweighed by the fee-for-departure mainline pays to it's regionals, especially once these departures start canceling left and right. Obviously there's more to it than that, and if I can predict the future I wouldn't be in aviation. But more seats at mainline could only be good for us, regardless of what seat that aircraft is in.

We don't deserve better.
 

Once pilots truly realize they possess skills of value the leverage will swing. Buy a new pair of shoes and face your excuses.

And then "Beastie Boys music playing"

I can't stand it I know you planned it
I'm gonna set it straight, this watergate
I can't stand rocking when I'm in here
Because your crystal ball ain't so crystal clear
So while you sit back and wonder why
I got this ****ing thorn in my side
Oh my, it's a mirage
I'm tellin' y'all it's CABOTAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We know what we're worth but what do we do about it? Quit? Then what? Problem is this industry does not have a level playing field and management holds all the cards. Can't strike, can't sick out, can't do very much. On top of it, when you do get something good then they come right back at you threats of bankruptcy or lost flying. Like I said...they hold all the cards. Just try to be at the right place at the right time to avoid not getting screwed too much when the music stops playing.

This thread is accurate. We deserve the consequences of our decisions. Most regional applicants make poor decisions. There are some regional airlines that do pay adequately. Not great, but adequate.

As a group, we're always trying to chase the quick upgrade, or some sort of shortcut. Using upgrade time as a metric to select a regional is completely idiotic. What are the odds that the current crop of companies will all exist in 5 or 6 years?

Money, time off, and the commute. These are the things that matter in your life every day.

Management loves this.

That's all? I had a few years at the regionals where I made what you are suggesting as Legacy Captain pay. You suggest 60K for Regional CA? I think the average regional Captain is making well north of 60K.

You want to retire after 20 years? I mean I guess I want that too but I don't expect that will happen minus hitting the lottery I don't play. Excluding your own investments, expecting a company to compensate you well enough to retire in your forties is not realistic.

Also trying to pair regional pay with mainline pay won't happen. Legacy guys aren't ever going to take a pay cut to help out the regionals. If you were in their shoes you wouldn't either.

It's great to see people on Facebook and other social media trying to get the word out about these awful TA's that are being presented to pilots. But they're still getting yes votes. Until that changes then compensation will actually decline. Something I never thought I would see.

Too many new guys and slightly "senior" FO's who think if they just accept this TA now they'll upgrade quicker.. Then they'll be making Cpt pay and sooner or later it'll be off to a legacy..

Then there are too many junior Cpt's who want to hold onto what they have for just a bit longer til they can high tail it to a Legacy....

Factor in senior Cpt's who get a bone or two thrown their way to keep them happy. Everyone knows they typically won't fall on a grenade for a first or second year FO..

Management plays regional guys like a fiddle...

Compare that to well paying legacy pilots....who typically aren't chasing upgrades.

Are you kidding? Where do you work?

Most of the FOs at SkyWest make $40K a year, in fact $50-60K is quite common.

$60K for a captain, -I've been one for 10 years and my lowest tax return was for low 80s. Most have been mid 90s.

$40K is where regional FOs should start. They should be at 50-60K a few years later.

There shouldn't be a captain out there making less than $80-90K their first year in the seat. After all that's 2nd year pay at the legacies.

What is a livable wage with those numbers? In 10 years they will be poverty level wages. Perhaps 20 years ago those numbers provided someone with ample income. Additionally 40 a year may be livable to one person, not livable to another and yet the next guy may be living high off the hog with no complaints. The market sets the wage and the market is the interaction between the pilot and the company management. You could write an entire book on this and people have. So until pilots in appreciable numbers decide that 22 an hour is not worth it to them the wage will stay suppressed.

A Company under the financial system put in place here will always be in a state of reacting. It is this reacting that causes the wage increase to lag far behind the rate of inflation. This reduces our standard of living every year. Primarily they react to devaluation of the currency and in the case of an airline that means reacting to higher fuel prices. A company will do what a company does and that is to maximize profits. So who should come in and fix the wage level to whats "fair" for the employee. The only organization that can do that is the government and this causes widespread unemployment and always has.

I personally would rather live in a society where there is very low unemployment, a stable currency worth its original value and low regulation. Maybe then we would have a "livable" wage and a higher standard of living / QOL.

Yes, social networking!!!! Foreign governments have recently been overrun because people who were fed up with their leaders got together on Facebook and united to march together; surely we can organize and all get on one Facebook channel.

Anyone got a friend outside the us that would not mind hosting your companies pilot group FB group "Eagle Pilots"? This way a pilot doesn't have to host it, all unite and take action. "Fly the book" one week, "call in sick" the next "like it" to show support and cooperation.

Management would come to their knees.

They would but there are to many P#$#&es out there to take a stand. Most of them are more comfortable passing the "buck" on to the next generation.